Rings of Power - Spoilers

Maybe this is the wrong venue for your comments? Maybe you should go to where the "male, young and white" fanboys are making their statements and fight them on their own turf rather than complaining about it here. If your statements are viewed within the full context of the discussion maybe they will seem less offensive.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Maybe this is the wrong venue for your comments? Maybe you should go to where the "male, young and white" fanboys are making their statements and fight them on their own turf rather than complaining about it here. If your statements are viewed within the full context of the discussion maybe they will seem less offensive.
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Certainly understandable, and I know this site is supposed to be a politics free zone. But the discussion did veer towards the way the show has been review bombed and I was trying to elucidate what's behind that nonsense, that it has little to do with the show itself and is about other sociological issues. I'm happy to get back to just discussing the show itselft.
 
Okay, I'm a big fan of the books and have read them again as recently as 2020. I hated the movies. Too cartoony and too much emphasis on the massive battles. Do you think I will I like this new stuff?
 
Doug Jensen said:
Okay, I'm a big fan of the books and have read them again as recently as 2020. I hated the movies. Too cartoony and too much emphasis on the massive battles. Do you think I will I like this new stuff?
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It's definitely trying to recreate the feel of the movies so probably not. It is taking a slower pace just by virtue of being a longer series though, but we're only two episodes in so not sure how it's going to develop. I imagine there will be more battles as it progresses, and they didn't skimp on budget so they will probably be big and elaborate.
 
Batutta said:
It's definitely trying to recreate the feel of the movies so probably not. It is taking a slower pace just by virtue of being a longer series though, but we're only two episodes in so not sure how it's going to develop. I imagine there will be more battles as it progresses, and they didn't skimp on budget so they will probably be big and elaborate.
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Yeah, I kind of figured that if I didn't like the movies I might not like this new stuff either. I'll wait until they have produced a bunch of episodes and then binge a few and see what I think. I forget too much about what is going on in a serial if there is too much gap between shows. It's like reading a novel one chapter a week. Episodic TV worked when every episode was basically stand-alone, but that isn't the case anymore. I gotta ingest the story all in a short period of time in order to really enjoy it. I did enjoy GOT but I never watched any of it until the whole series was over and then I watched it in a few weeks time. And I never read the GOT books, so my opinion wasn't affected by how/if the filmmakers butchered the original work.

Now that movie theaters are basically dead and we have streaming with virtually no time limits for content, I would love to see someone go back and do the LOTR trilogy properly no matter what the running time turned out to be. I've never seen anything from Peter Jackson that I liked.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Yeah, I kind of figured that if I didn't like the movies I might not like this new stuff either. I'll wait until they have produced a bunch of episodes and then binge a few and see what I think. I forget too much about what is going on in a serial if there is too much gap between shows. It's like reading a novel one chapter a week. Episodic TV worked when every episode was basically stand-alone, but that isn't the case anymore. I gotta ingest the story all in a short period of time in order to really enjoy it. I did enjoy GOT but I never watched any of it until the whole series was over and then I watched it in a few weeks time. And I never read the GOT books, so my opinion wasn't affected by how/if the filmmakers butchered the original work.

Now that movie theaters are basically dead and we have streaming with virtually no time limits for content, I would love to see someone go back and do the LOTR trilogy properly no matter what the running time turned out to be. I've never seen anything from Peter Jackson that I liked.
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I'm kind of the same way re: binging. I got into 1883 mid-season and binged until I had caught up. But I didn't have the patience or emotional energy to come back every week for a new episode, so I never saw the rest of the season

Speaking of GOT in relation to this new show -- I really feel like the writing (character, story) is the key ingredient for any show. And it seems to me like GOT took a turn when they used up all the story written by Martin. (I'm just speculating based on what I've heard and read, I haven't seen GOT.)

So, where is the story for Rings of Power taken from? Is it rooted in original Tolkien plots or just based on his mythology and scenario?

BTW I think Peter Jackspn is absolutely brilliant as far as keeping the flow of an adventure scene going with little dramatic and comic flourishes. He's a real fountain of ideas in that regard. And shares a strong handle of the fantastical with Guillermo del Toro. But I don't really like his movies either. They don't hold together for me in their totality
 
ahalpert said:
BTW I think Peter Jackspn is absolutely brilliant as far as keeping the flow of an adventure scene going with little dramatic and comic flourishes. He's a real fountain of ideas in that regard. And shares a strong handle of the fantastical with Guillermo del Toro. But I don't really like his movies either. They don't hold together for me in their totality
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Yes, that describes it very well. Some parts of LOTR and the HOBBIT are very good and engaging, but he can't sustain it very long beore it falls apart. Then he has to build it again. Maybe he is aiming for too broad of an audience, so everyone gets a few things the really like, but mostly a lot of stuff they don't. Taking serious characters and making them appear childish (most of the dwarfs) ruins it too.

Battles and other seemlingly endless "action" that goes on and on in the Tolkien movies is often covered in just a page or even a paragraph in the books. As it should be. Showing something visually ought to take less time than reading the words about it. Isn't a picture worth a thousand words? I also hate camera moves that would be impossible to shoot in real life. That takes me completely out of it and makes it just seem like I'm watching someone play a video game.
 
Batutta said:
Certainly understandable, and I know this site is supposed to be a politics free zone. But the discussion did veer towards the way the show has been review bombed and I was trying to elucidate what's behind that nonsense, that it has little to do with the show itself and is about other sociological issues. I'm happy to get back to just discussing the show itselft.
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Review bombing is a part of our media marketing and pr landscape now and really important to discuss, and this show gives us a specific example of it. So in context, we can’t avoid some of what we are talking about here. It really is just business at the end of the day.
 
ahalpert said:
So, where is the story for Rings of Power taken from? Is it rooted in original Tolkien plots or just based on his mythology and scenario?
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From what I know, it's based on the Silmarillion, which was unfinished Tolkein writing that was published posthumously and some appendices. But it's mostly made up stuff and features new characters. I loved the first trilogy of movies for the most part. By the end of Return of the King, some of the things I hated about The Hobbit started to creep in to Jackson's filmmaking -- over reliance on green screen and CGI...showy, outlandish stunts and camera work that defied normal physics...endless, excessive action set pieces and just generally being overwritten. Jackson's single best film is probably Heavenly Creatures.
 
Batutta said:
From what I know, it's based on the Silmarillion, which was unfinished Tolkein writing that was published posthumously and some appendices. But it's mostly made up stuff and features new characters. I loved the first trilogy of movies for the most part. By the end of Return of the King, some of the things I hated about The Hobbit started to creep in to Jackson's filmmaking -- over reliance on green screen and CGI...showy, outlandish stunts and camera work that defied normal physics...endless, excessive action set pieces and just generally being overwritten. Jackson's single best film is probably Heavenly Creatures.
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In a strange way, i what makes me dislike P Jackson’s films, as you have described them, is what makes me like them as a series/show. I tend to want to be engaged when watching a movie, even possibly challenged, but occasionally at home, might just be something in the background. And for that, Jackson’s latest works are perfect.
 
I've liked everything I've seen so far through Eps 1, 2 except for the opening title sequence that debuted in Ep 2, which didn't seem to follow any of the established Tolkien / LOTR imagery / fonts.
 
agcohn said:
I've liked everything I've seen so far through Eps 1, 2 except for the opening title sequence that debuted in Ep 2, which didn't seem to follow any of the established Tolkien / LOTR imagery / fonts.
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oh man, i didn’t even think about that. That’s a bummer. World building and nostalgia both would anticipate some references like that to the original source material. It’s like Star Wars without John Williams score.
 
Batutta said:
The point of storytelling and filmmaking in particular is to put you, the viewer, in the shoes of another individual and experience events through a different point of view. This requires empathy. As a minority who grew up watching Hollywood films, I almost never saw myself reflected on screen unless I was getting blown away by Dirty Harry or something. Nonetheless, I was able to enjoy movies because I had some empathy and was able to connect with many white male heroes due to the skill of the storytellers and filmmakers. Now, these white boys (and let's be honest, this is who is complaining loudest) who have never needed empathy to enjoy a movie because they always saw themselves reflected back on screen, are suddenly shocked when they are not portrayed as paragons of virtue, strength, virility and sexual desire at every moment in a story.
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So, against my better judgement I went ahead and watched the first two episodes last night to see what all the fuss is about. I think the casting was one of the best parts of the show. The gender/race/color of the characters didn't matter at all to me. All good. I thought the cinematography, lighting, CGI, and overall look was also really well-done.

But in the end, my overall reaction is a shoulder shrug. Who cares? I found the story very shallow, lackluster, and dull. I can't see how this series would be of any interest to someone over the age of 12. It seems like a Disney product rather than something made for adults. There's just nothing there that is engaging enough to spend my time on. So while I didn't hate it, I won't be watching future episodes.
 
Doug Jensen said:
But in the end, my overall reaction is a shoulder shrug.
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I think that is just how mass entertainment ends up being, unless there is a mass shared experience, like in the case of the Marvel Movies or Star Wars perhaps.

That and any sort of multi story narrative tend to start sort of meh. Too many people to care about.

When i first started watching Game of Thrones i could care less about the show, but by season whatever, i was throwing stuff at the TV when someone died.
 
ahalpert said:
It also has to be accessible to children if it's going to reach the widest audience possible
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even if it doesn’t not everyone wants all that HBO bullshit and incest.

There is a reason why in this anxiety ridden decade that people use LOTR as a cult favorite comfort watch.
 
JimGao said:
even if it doesn’t not everyone wants all that HBO bull**** and incest.

There is a reason why in this anxiety ridden decade that people use LOTR as a cult favorite comfort watch.
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There's a difference between inaccessible and inappropriate. You can be appropriate for children while being too complex metaphysically or emotionally for them to understand. Or the plot could be difficult to follow and require the viewer to make inferences and connections that aren't spelled out.

BTW does anyone remember the Calvin and hobbes comic about the movie with "adult situations?"

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BTW random tangent, I just remembered that a few weeks ago I shot and edited a social media video to advertise the auction of a handwritten letter from Tolkien. He had the most amazing penmanship, and included a rune alphabet. It was the only item we filmed that day that I was tempted to buy. This was the video: https://f.io/wwAjqYGw
 
ahalpert said:
There's a difference between inaccessible and inappropriate. You can be appropriate for children while being too complex metaphysically or emotionally for them to understand. Or the plot could be difficult to follow and require the viewer to make inferences and connections that aren't spelled out.
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I think you are right. My point before was that adults don’t necessarily always want complicated or challenging or “edgy”. Often times that stuff is sort of low hanging lazy fruit anyway.

HBO tends to have *better writing, but they also prioritize entertainment, and as a result they fall back on violence and sex or fouled up language. In part it lends a realism, but I have a suspicion it isn’t always for the art and realism.

I think that is what i admire about shows like Star Trek Next Generation and the Great British Menu. Sci-Fi tends to lean into fantasy and violence, and reality TV often stoops down to the lowest common denominator, and yet these two shows are/were successful while not being typical of their respective genres.

(*season 7 of GoT makes me question my own statement though)
 
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ahalpert said:
BTW random tangent, I just remembered that a few weeks ago I shot and edited a social media video to advertise the auction of a handwritten letter from Tolkien. He had the most amazing penmanship, and included a rune alphabet. It was the only item we filmed that day that I was tempted to buy. This was the video: https://f.io/wwAjqYGw
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i’m jealous!
 
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