Cinema EOS Announcement on 19th Jan - EOS R5C

NorBro said:
With Canon, for that price, it's what you see is what you get.

R5 and R6 were the first hybrids to have zebras if you can believe that. In 2020.

Even the $6500 1DX Mark III has no zebras.

The difference with the R5 C is it's from the cinema department so it will have all of the exposure tools the cinema cameras have, including false color and waveform.
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I actually thought the zebras didn't work with HDR PQ. Turns out because its not a normal 100 IRE type of a video its just way off. Zebras at 50% actually work which is really odd. I also noticed the almost useless histogram is truncated on the right side as well when shooting HDR PQ. About the only thing that is working well for me in the EV meter. As long as I use electronic lenses.

Starting to wonder about HDR PQ and if its the right path to take. I love the look of it but its a bit of a pain.
 
That's actually funny because I thought they didn't work for HDR PQ in the R5 either when I first used that mode in that camera (and that was the only time I ever used it). Histogram is useless.
 
Thomas Smet said:
I actually thought the zebras didn't work with HDR PQ. Turns out because its not a normal 100 IRE type of a video its just way off. Zebras at 50% actually work which is really odd. I also noticed the almost useless histogram is truncated on the right side as well when shooting HDR PQ. About the only thing that is working well for me in the EV meter. As long as I use electronic lenses.

Starting to wonder about HDR PQ and if its the right path to take. I love the look of it but its a bit of a pain.
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Just FYI, log was around long before HDR, and it's range more than ample to contain all HDR, and that's how we did it. If you consider, HDR is a display technology first, not even a camera technology at all, just metadata, not a product, PQ a child of Dolby Labs. A simple way to consider, is that a SDR picture targets max brightness of 100-200 nits and 6-7 stops of DR. A stop is a doubling of light. Blacks are the same. Do the math and see that a hypothetical 1000 nit HDR monitor is 10-11 stops of DR at most. PQ curves were added to cameras to simplify the one thing that was making life impossible for people messing around with HDR that didn't know their way around h.265, adding of the PQ metadata to the video that would 'switch' a display into HDR mode on playback of the video. That's it. All a camera is doing now is exporting a video with the metadata, and giving you a grade-able IRE curve, nothing special at all, and except for the metadata nothing you don't already have in regular log. It really doesn't have to even be log except that SDR has it's highlights so crushed around the knee, it's impossible to avoid banding when you try to transform SDR to HDR. Obviously, log has it's middle gray at a lower IRE than SDR, and since that decision is part of the iso, there's the bit of pain you're dealing with causing you to question the path, you have to expose more like you would for log than 709.
 
Tom Roper said:
Just FYI, log was around long before HDR, and it's range more than ample to contain all HDR, and that's how we did it. If you consider, HDR is a display technology first, not even a camera technology at all, just metadata, not a product, PQ a child of Dolby Labs. A simple way to consider, is that a SDR picture targets max brightness of 100-200 nits and 6-7 stops of DR. A stop is a doubling of light. Blacks are the same. Do the math and see that a hypothetical 1000 nit HDR monitor is 10-11 stops of DR at most. PQ curves were added to cameras to simplify the one thing that was making life impossible for people messing around with HDR that didn't know their way around h.265, adding of the PQ metadata to the video that would 'switch' a display into HDR mode on playback of the video. That's it. All a camera is doing now is exporting a video with the metadata, and giving you a grade-able IRE curve, nothing special at all, and except for the metadata nothing you don't already have in regular log. It really doesn't have to even be log except that SDR has it's highlights so crushed around the knee, it's impossible to avoid banding when you try to transform SDR to HDR. Obviously, log has it's middle gray at a lower IRE than SDR, and since that decision is part of the iso, there's the bit of pain you're dealing with causing you to question the path, you have to expose more like you would for log than 709.
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Totally. What I like about the HDR PQ mode is it manages higher dynamic range without needing to use log. It is far from perfect but its nice to having better color and dynamic range while shooting a format that visually looks normal like standard profiles look. I'm also not so sure 10bit compressed log is as robust as it could be. When it comes to 12bit raw sure plenty of depth there to stretch out values. I wonder if dumping raw directly into a HDR rec2020 bucket is not better when the format is 10bit 4:2:2. Less pushing of those values. 10bit makes log a lot more usable but its still being stretched in ways beyond what the depth should handle. Similar to how 8bit sucks for log. Eventually 10bit hits a limit as well.

Not to mention clog3 on the R6 is rather noisy for a FF camera. Even at ISO 800. I know we can shoot a stop over to solve that but I don't like to shoot a stop over. HDR PQ at ISO 800 with the same exposure is lightyears cleaner than clog3. An example of how much horsing around one does have to do with log. Not everything lends itself well to log and I feel like HDR PQ solves that by allowing us to shoot normal while still having some of the benefits of log such as dynamic range and color gamut.

Still not sure thats the right path but it is without a doubt much easier to use. If we can stay in a 100% workflow that is. To me using HDR PQ is as easy as using the standard profile on the camera. With proper white balance its already corrected and ready to go. I can still do light grades on it for a look similar to how I did for years before we had log. The look is baked in more so clearly not an option for everyone but if I already like the look of the R6 I see no huge loss there. Part of why I bought the R6 and moved away from Panasonic was for the color people harped on for years. I have to do zero farting around with color to get decent skin tones. I'm happy with the color out of the box on the R6 so using HDR PQ there makes 100x more sense than it ever did on Panasonic cameras.

So to me HDR PQ is the standard we always wish we could have had but was technically impossible. You cannot have a baked in rec709 color profile and maintain wider color gamut and dynamic range. Thats why to me HDR PQ is a alternative. Its not perfect but it is an alternative for those that always preferred normal profiles over log.
 
I was never a telephoto shooter, but i did some extra shots on a 280mm, before going to the longest we had, a 500mm, but i was hooked. Started dreaming up shots with a 1000mmm,

 
Missing out, man...that's the best one yet...

It's where the little robot and the little goblin go AWOL and destroy the Starship Enterprise.
 
James0b57 said:
Once something becomes a meme, it sort of stops being what it originally was.
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That's fair but that meme hadn't made it yet to the rock under which I live. Every dose of bad star wars I see lessens my appreciation of the originals.

Dude I was rewatching the opening of new hope recently... such masterful storytelling
 
ahalpert said:
That's fair but that meme hadn't made it yet to the rock under which I live. Every dose of bad star wars I see lessens my appreciation of the originals.

Dude I was rewatching the opening of new hope recently... such masterful storytelling
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It’s not just a Star Wars meme, it’s an Adam Driver Star Wars meme.
 
To take a tangent from this tangent, I learned the word "requel" today in an article about the new Scream. It's like a remake but it's written as a continuation of the original story and typically reprises the original actors, but now as the mentor generation to the new actors who play out a new iteration of the original story. I'm not opposed to that idea. But force awakens sucked
 
R5C is the Force Awakens of Camera. It goes against expectation. “oh, you wanted IBIS? how about no”

But thankfully the price was a welcome surprise.
 
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