Cinema EOS Announcement on 19th Jan - EOS R5C

[morgan_moore]

for hybrid journalists,

ok so you. Turn up at an “event” -?the fire is burning the police are battoning

a still can run on the news stills are safe

so you pock off a few stills and hit the switch

the fire is extinguished the battons go back in their cases

the camera starts starting on video mode but by now you know that never again will you go to do journalism with a r5c

 

[Guest]

ok so you. Turn up at an “event” -?the fire is burning the police are battoning

a still can run on the news stills are safe

so you pock off a few stills and hit the switch

the fire is extinguished the battons go back in their cases

the camera starts starting on video mode but by now you know that never again will you go to do journalism with a r5c

seems like with 8K video sensors, there wouldn’t need to be different modes in cameras.

Exposure is the same for stills and video.




Seems having a nice easy access button to a stills capture is the way to go. have a record motion capture button elsewhere.




Menus could be more simple too.





Go right to get to stills centric menus, go left to get to video centric menus, and then an easier to access button for custom menu. No need to restart.


Obsviously there is still room for more specialized and dedicated machines. Like the way the Arri Alexa Classic was singularly focused on design for major motion picture and film emulation. there was no other purpose, and as a result it was fantastic in that context. but now that it us sold used for under $10K i don’t want some heavy power hungry machine to run around with documenting random things. makes zero sense for me, despite the good image quality. on the other side of that, rangefinder cameras and SLR cameras are good examples of dedicated design. The ergonomics of dslr furthered that tradition. But video certainly mudddied the waters towards the end of the dslr reign, and now with mirrorless, it is hard to seperate video from stills any more.


Hybrids are a good thing, but a hybrid is actually its own category and as such the design philosophy should be different. there are something that are always the same, because people are essentially very similar. So the hybrid category has a lot of potential being it’s own thing.

But that is what i don’t understand about most hybrids, they are not designed like hybrids, they are designed like they are scared to miss out on a sales opportunity.

Cameras today are designed with a huge dose of fear from the sales figures department. Everything from withholding features to adding features that don’t need to be added, because “what if fewer people buy it”.

Part of the reason people are so specs and buzzword driven these days, is because none of the manufacturers have confident or educated design anymore. they are all run by sales numbers, and are not camera companies.

 

[NorBro]

I know it's not the same but sometimes on social media I swear I think big companies are pulling out frames from video for their stills coverage.

That's something I always did and thought it was great because normal folk don't care in this faster world with more content every hour, every minute - but I know dedicated stills are necessary as well.

 

[Guest]

ok so you. Turn up at an “event” -?the fire is burning the police are battoning

a still can run on the news stills are safe

so you pock off a few stills and hit the switch

the fire is extinguished the battons go back in their cases

the camera starts starting on video mode but by now you know that never again will you go to do journalism with a r5c

…and we vowed, never again. winter is coming

 

[morgan_moore]

Ive been thinking about this - (Getty got me stringing after some stuff down here https://vimeo.com/527072583)

blap a still then switch to vid .. or shoot some munglefck that you can pull both from??

- clearly its very simple to have two people dedicated to thier job and just do it properly

at 50p you can do 1/100 and get some sharpish stills which pulled from 4k are not too shabby..

my r6 is set on 50p for now - I have it lying around by the window if there is something going down outside - so id just film

the r6 one can nicely keep it at 1/50 and 1/180 for stills and movie,

I think the switch on the r5c is perfect.. apart from the unacceptabe 8 seconds loss.

these stiking deliveroo drivers went past in about 2 mins.. I spent the first 60 seconds looking for shoes. I was not able to film much of use let alone something id like to sell
total garbage.. https://vimeo.com/662642644 canon r6.

 

[morgan_moore]

James0b57

I like it

 

[Liam Hall]

Im not sure if you are joking.. but I do consider hot shoes to be user disposable/repacable

No, not joking, for once. It's in the CVP video. Apparently the Tascam was developed with Canon and Fuji and there is a version specific for each manufacturer.

 

[Guest]

Ive been thinking about this - (Getty got me stringing after some stuff down here https://vimeo.com/527072583)

blap a still then switch to vid .. or shoot some munglefck that you can pull both from??

- clearly its very simple to have two people dedicated to thier job and just do it properly

at 50p you can do 1/100 and get some sharpish stills which pulled from 4k are not too shabby..

my r6 is set on 50p for now - I have it lying around by the window if there is something going down outside - so id just film

the r6 one can nicely keep it at 1/50 and 1/180 for stills and movie,

I think the switch on the r5c is perfect.. apart from the unacceptabe 8 seconds loss.

these stiking deliveroo drivers went past in about 2 mins.. I spent the first 60 seconds looking for shoes. I was not able to film much of use let alone something id like to sell
total garbage.. https://vimeo.com/662642644 canon r6.

A camera is a tool, and they should be designed for specific uses.

If a journalist needs a hybrid camera, the hybrid camera should be designed for the journalist.




But instead they have to buy the catch all camera that i made for the bird watcher, the wedding photog, the film maker, the enthusiast etc.

Cameras are classified by terms like

Flagship
>
Prosumer/enthusiasts
>
hobby/consumer/entry level

Those are catch all categories tiered by price not function or use.


And despite having so few categories and tiers to their pricing structure, they have inundated the market with model after model, and every one of them is a catch all product designed to appeal to the largest segment possible. They have a million cameras made for no one in particular.

 

[Guest]

No, not joking, for once. It's in the CVP video. Apparently the Tascam was developed with Canon and Fuji and there is a version specific for each manufacturer.

Interesting solution. have you been able to test it out?

i recall the hotshoe and bolt down on the Panasonic AG-DVC30, which was extremely solid. wish they had a system closer to that. my sentiment reflect Morgan’s in that the Tascam thing looks like an accident waiting to happen.

 

[morgan_moore]

A hybid cam is a tool - a tool for filling news websites.

Ive always been on jobs janking.. like having my 1.4mp nikon news camera (for the daily press) and a mamiya with 100 velvia film on the other shoulder to try to go for magazines and stock agencies.

I dont know what a hybrid journalism camera would be.. something with a pelicle mirror that films through one chip and a second chip is there to take stills

I guess I need to try more grabbing stills from a 4k 50p stream.. probably garbage but good enough if the content is good and my output would be better If I just concentrate on filming.


Next week im doing a tourism job, we'll probably make some 'scenes' - joe pulls pizza from oven, diane sets off on mountain bike trail

these scenes there will be an age (30s) while we reset for take two.. the stills take .. and the 8seconds switchover would be no problem at all.

 

[Guest]

James0b57

I like it

yes!

Your post was well written and i enjoyed the slight epic tone towards the end. had to commemorate it in some way.

 

[ahalpert]

seems like with 8K video sensors, there wouldn’t need to be different modes in cameras.

Exposure is the same for stills and video.

Different shutter speeds seems like the problem to me. In video you probably want 1/48 or 1/50 or 1/60. For stills you probably want 1/100 and higher, especially to freeze the motion of the police beating people. 1/200 really. But if you have a flash, the flash freezes the motion. But then your exposure will be wildly different from video.

One way to solve it might be to shoot at 120fps with 360-degree shutter. You get 1/120 shutter stills. And with some software processing, you could create 24fps, 30fps, or 60fps video with either 1/60 or 1/120 shutter. (1/60 shuttsr by averaging 2 frames in a row and getting more motion blur). But of course you have to drop to 4k for 120fps as of now

 

[ahalpert]

these scenes there will be an age (30s) while we reset for take two.. the stills take .. and the 8seconds switchover would be no problem at all.

How about using 2 cameras, one set for video and one for photo? Wear a harness to carry the one you're not using, like a wedding photographer

And re: shutter speed, I guess if we're willing to shoot video with super high shutter speed then pulling the stills is totally feasible

 

[NorBro]

One day, maybe you can have a little iPhone-like camera the size of a GoPro on the shoe shooting in different focal lengths at 8K+ at the same time.

Won't be the best, most artistic coverage - but with some post work you'll likely be covered.

 

[Guest]

One day, maybe you can have a little iPhone-like camera the size of a GoPro on the shoe shooting in different focal lengths at 8K+ at the same time.

Won't be the best, most artistic coverage - but with some post work you'll likely be covered.

That will certainly happen before we get a camera with

14+ dynamic range and usable color science and codec on a sub $10K large sensor

 

[davedv]

Interesting solution. have you been able to test it out?

i recall the hotshoe and bolt down on the Panasonic AG-DVC30, which was extremely solid. wish they had a system closer to that. my sentiment reflect Morgan’s in that the Tascam thing looks like an accident waiting to happen.

I believe the Tascam XLR units don't start shipping until the end of January, but the shoe base is designed to be a user-replaceable part of the adapter. Shoe adapters will be available for Canon, Fujifilm, and analog output (cold shoe) so the idea is that you could swap the shoe without buying an entirely new XLR unit, as mentioned toward the bottom of this product page:
https://tascam.com/us/product/ca-xlr2d/feature

The shoe on the camera itself is much more involved to fix, if it were it to get damaged. On the R5 the screws holding the shoe plate in place are internal (screw upward from the inside of the camera). So if the shoe gets loose, it requires taking apart the camera and removing the viewfinder in order to get access to the screws to tighten them (or alternatively, sending the camera into Canon to do this). The R5c has a different hot shoe design with more electrical contacts, so I'm not sure whether it is secured to the camera in the same way with internally tightened screws.

 

[Guest]

Different shutter speeds seems like the problem to me.

Translating exposure from stills to video has got to be the most simple operation for a microprocessor.

 

[Thomas Smet]

Gordon Laing tested IS on R5C. With the optical lens (24-105 F4 L) stabilization and the digital on-camera turned on, it looks OK.

I had a Canon M6 with a 32MP sensor. Amazing stills but the 4k video was pixel binned and then upscaled to 4k from roughly 3.2k. Very good sensitivity but the detail suffered. It only had digital IS which was actually not super bad. In the case of the M6 that ate into what resolution was pixel binned. so eventually with the enhanced IS it only had 2.8k to upscale to 4k.

On the R5C I would expect it to be much better if one is recording 4k video. 4k video uses 8k to over sample to 4k. Thats a tad overkill and with the digital IS it drops to a lower amount but still more than enough to maintain very fine 4k details. In combination with lens IS I would think it would be a pretty solid option for 4k video. 8k will clearly take a detail hit but then we get into the whole do we really need8k or would 6k be enough. The 8k from the digital IS is likely around 6k or so but that is already so insanely detailed I doubt many of us are seeing a difference. Especially since most of us are likely not using a 8k display. I'm sure the digital IS is phenomenal even in 8k and likely perfect for 4k.

I have a Canon R6 which kind of suffers a bit from the digital IS like the M6 did. It drops the resolution slightly below 4k. With that said its not horrible and some do use it. I sometimes use the APSC crop mode on the R6 and despite only using about 3.4k it looks amazing as 4k video. The R5 is without a doubt even better.

As to how much it stabilizes meh. The Canon digital IS helps get rid of jitters but its no selfie while walking replacement at all. Then again neither is Canon IBIS. Its good for standing still or very slow and careful movements but thats about it. Canon just isn't spectacular at stabilization at all. If one wants gimbal like movements Canon is not the way to go. I'm glad I still have a great gimbal to use. I pretty much consider Canon IBIS good enough for standing still shots to not look like crap.

 

[Guest]

I believe the Tascam XLR units don't start shipping until the end of January, but the shoe base is designed to be a user-replaceable part of the adapter. Shoe adapters will be available for Canon, Fujifilm, and analog output (cold shoe) so the idea is that you could swap the shoe without buying an entirely new XLR unit, as mentioned toward the bottom of this product page:
https://tascam.com/us/product/ca-xlr2d/feature

The shoe on the camera itself is much more involved to fix, if it were it to get damaged. On the R5 the screws holding the shoe plate in place are internal (screw upward from the inside of the camera). So if the shoe gets loose, it requires taking apart the camera and removing the viewfinder in order to get access to the screws to tighten them (or alternatively, sending the camera into Canon to do this). The R5c has a different hot shoe design with more electrical contacts, so I'm not sure whether it is secured to the camera in the same way with internally tightened screws.

Thank you!

Interesting concept for sure.

 

[DLD]

How about using 2 cameras, one set for video and one for photo? Wear a harness to carry the one you're not using, like a wedding photographer

Hypothetically, one could have two cameras in one body. The problem is that the sensors would have to be smaller for the fixed lens version or the bodies bigger for an ILC. But it's possible. Something like 1DX series, with both stills and video. It might look a bit like the Rolleiflex of the yesteryear.