Cinema EOS Announcement on 19th Jan - EOS R5C

since the 5Dmk2, a lot of shooters have been anticipating the release of an actual video camera in Mirrorless form. The C70 proves that xlr and p48 power and internal ND are possible in that form factor. Now they just need to get >13stops DR and minimum 6K FF35 (so that s35 crop is close to 4K) and then you have the makings of a compelling video camera for modern shooters.
 
cpreston said:
This is going to be an interesting release for understanding the market. When the R5 came out, all I read about was the overheating issue. It appears that Canon immediately started responding to the online complaints and modified the R5 so it doesn't overheat. Give the customer what they want, right? We'll see if anybody actually buys the R5C. If it is really just an R5 with an extra codec, fan, and no recording limit, my bet is that the market is actually quite small. To make up for it, Canon will have to price it in 1DC territory. Once again they will have shot themselves in the foot by responding to the customer without actually considering what that customer is willing to spend.

And I am really interested in some type of small C series camera. I really want to stop having my gimbal camera be a C500II. I am intrigued by the "13 assignable buttons" spec. I just can't stand using the camera touch screen to make camera adjustments anymore.
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Well said.
 
cpreston said:
This is going to be an interesting release for understanding the market. When the R5 came out, all I read about was the overheating issue. It appears that Canon immediately started responding to the online complaints and modified the R5 so it doesn't overheat...
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It still shuts down. They just extended the recording times. The only way to shoot continuously is to connect the external recorder (Ninja Va in 5K Raw).

As to the ND's and the XLR's, that's what C90 will be for.
 
Although it will mostly be a R5, it will have some other features like Cinema RAW Light, XF-AVC and possibly C-Log2 which will separate it from the R5 by a great amount (in terms of nerdy specs people may want).

C-Log2 is where Canon's best dynamic range comes from and no Canon mirrorless has ever had it (only C-Log, and C-Log3 in the R5 and R6 which is just as useless as C-Log).

Now this camera will technically have the cinema badge but it's the closest thing to a non-cinema mirrorless that would be the first to have C-Log2, if it does.

https://www.canonrumors.com/here-are...pecifications/
 
I know this is too early and purely hypothetical at this stage, but,

if C-log3 can handle up to 14stops DR, does the R5 sensor have anything else to offer in terms of DR?

Does that mean in Clog2 that the R5 will yield Alexa like 14+ stops DR?


i’m rather confused by all the Canon log talk, as the numbers don’t add up.
 
NorBro said:
Although it will mostly be a R5, it will have some other features like Cinema RAW Light, XF-AVC and possibly C-Log2 which will separate it from the R5 by a great amount (in terms of nerdy specs people may want).

C-Log2 is where Canon's best dynamic range comes from and no Canon mirrorless has ever had it (only C-Log, and C-Log3 in the R5 and R6 which is just as useless as C-Log).

Now this camera will technically have the cinema badge but it's the closest thing to a non-cinema mirrorless that would be the first to have C-Log2, if it does.

https://www.canonrumors.com/here-are...pecifications/
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Let's see what they mean by "Enhanced Image Stabilization." If that is ibis that is improved, great. If it is the awful Electronic stab that I have in the c70, then this would be terrible for a mirrorless setup. A cam that small and lightweight needs proper ibis, or else you are committed to OIS lenses. Admittedly, the Canon RF glass ecosystem has a ton of stabilized lenses, but that would still be disappointing.
 
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James0b57 said:
I know this is too early and purely hypothetical at this stage, but,

if C-log3 can handle up to 14stops DR, does the R5 sensor have anything else to offer in terms of DR?

Does that mean in Clog2 that the R5 will yield Alexa like 14+ stops DR?


i’m rather confused by all the Canon log talk, as the numbers don’t add up.
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C-Log2 is supposed to handle highlights better so the flexibility in post is greater to push and pull DR.

I would think the R5 should have better dynamic range in C-Log2 (even without post albeit even if just a bit), but it doesn't have it.

ozmorphasis said:
Let's see what they mean by "Enhanced Image Stabilization." If that is ibis that is improved, great. If it is the awful Electronic stab that I have in the c70, then this would be terrible for a mirrorless setup. A cam that small and lightweight needs proper ibis, or else you are committed to OIS lenses. Admittedly, the Canon RF glass ecosystem has a ton of stabilized lenses, but that would still be disappointing.
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I just used the 1DX Mark III and I thought its digital IS was really good for static hand holding (didn't try to pan with it). It's bad on the C70?

The new lenses work so well with IBIS that I think it's moot. Like if it's better, great - but it's already pretty good.
 
indiawilds said:
I. I am thinking about lens package for higher end applications with this camera. Would love to hear your views...

So yes there will be ton of investment in CFexpress cards.
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What sort of lens package are you looking for? Beautiful zooms and primes with great autofocus that can also pull manual focus well?

Happily, Cfexpress type B cards have come down in price a lot. Type A are much more expensive. But it is a little annoying that each slot on the r5c take a different type of card
 
morgan_moore said:
For raw I have a canon c200. It has ND xlr and the leads dont poke out the side, also the evf relocates to the top bottom side of my gimbal

8k.. I see a use.. billboards at airports.. but I dont shoot that..
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Much better AF and much more detail than the c200, I should think. Much better high iso performance. Full frame. But I agree none of that is a must-have if what you've got works. No ND is obviously a drawback

I remember reading that billboards don't require that much resolution because of the viewing distances? Or you're saying that airports is different because they're up close?

I see 8K as useful for cropping in post (what I would occasionally use it for), doing fine detail retouching in post (probably not useful for me), or if you have to deliver in 8K (probably years away from being required of me)
 
ozmorphasis said:
Let's see what they mean by "Enhanced Image Stabilization." If that is ibis that is improved, great. If it is the awful Electronic stab that I have in the c70, then this would be terrible for a mirrorless setup. A cam that small and lightweight needs proper ibis, or else you are committed to OIS lenses. Admittedly, the Canon RF glass ecosystem has a ton of stabilized lenses, but that would still be disappointing.
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as much as a i dislike IBIS on a certain level, i understand the need in smaller cameras.

at least IBIS is the closest we’ll get to real gate weave in digital! :)



now, if only they could capture at 48fps and take one under exposed frame and one of the image and then use the offset image data to overlay a more organic grain…..
 
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cpreston said:
To make up for it, Canon will have to price it in 1DC territory. Once again they will have shot themselves in the foot by responding to the customer without actually considering what that customer is willing to spend.
.
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Yes but in 3 or 4 years it will sell for the half the launch price, and 8K60 will still be all one needs (if one even needs it yet). So in a way I think one pays a massive premium to be an early adopter in the first year or two

1DC launched at $15k in March 2013. Feb 1st 2015 it dropped to $8k. Some time in between it was at $12k
 
ahalpert said:
I think he means they modified the R5 to create the R5C. But I my opinion, this was all part of their game plan
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Yeah, they weren't listening to any customer. lol

They flexed on us with a great camera in 2020 showing what they can really do, but limited it on purpose so they get the $4K quickly and then get the $8K or whatever it will be 2 years later all over again.

Because this camera smells like true hype, R5/a7SIII-type hype...and I just said in another thread how important that is.
 
James0b57 said:
I

if C-log3 can handle up to 14stops DR, does the R5 sensor have anything else to offer in terms of DR?

Does that mean in Clog2 that the R5 will yield Alexa like 14+ stops DR?
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I would look to the stills measurements to determine the maximum capability of the sensor. (Although, shouldn't the raw video files from the R5 shown us that too?)

Photons to photos rates the R5 at .63 stops above the a7siii, so basically on par with the S1H i guess

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm
 
ozmorphasis said:
. A cam that small and lightweight needs proper ibis, or else you are committed to OIS lenses. Admittedly, the Canon RF glass ecosystem has a ton of stabilized lenses, but that would still be disappointing.
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I also feel like IBIS is more effective than OIS, except maybe on telephotos where they're probably equal
 
James0b57 said:
as much as a i dislike IBIS on a certain level, i understand the need in smaller cameras.

at least IBIS is the closest we’ll get to real gate weave in digital! :)



now, if only they could capture at 48fps and take one under exposed frame and one of the image and then use the offset image data to overlay a man organic grain…..
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I like where your head is
 
ahalpert said:
I would look to the stills measurements to determine the maximum capability of the sensor. (Although, shouldn't the raw video files from the R5 shown us that too?)

Photons to photos rates the R5 at .63 stops above the a7siii, so basically on par with the S1H i guess

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm
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i am seeing an issue with the CineD test now:

according to DXOmark, the R5 hits a stop of extra DR at iso100, making what they rate as 14+ ev

whereas they rate the iso 800 at least a stop worse.

So, CineD taking the R5 and shooting raw at iso400 and is800 lost about a stop.

if that logic holds up. i don’t have access to the R5 at this time.


if that is true, maybe i should pick up an R5, because i dislike iso800 as a base iso during the day anyways.
 
You can't shoot any lower than 800 with C-Log/3 (or maybe you can but they warn you it's not ideal and you should start at the 800 base, IDR).
 
I have a question...
how many of you guys who are in the discussion about the R5 / R5c and the downsides have used it for making money?
After 1,5 yrs, >50.000 stills and days of video footage I can say what I am keen about: full size HDMI and cooling.
I shot a commercial all in 120p last summer and I barely managed it with two bodies.
I was shooting an event >90min continuously on the NinjaV+ and I was scared of overheating and loosing connection with the flimsy micr HDMI port.

Off course there are cameras which are more suitable for these kind of jobs but I am more than happy that I have the R5 which covers all. I neither need need a big bag with 6 bodies nor go for a rental every second job. I don't care for plus half stop of dynamic range, 8K RAW 60p, or super low rolling shutter. The R5 was close to dream come true for me (ymmv):
High res still, perfect AF, nice colors, all that in one body. I'm very exited what's coming.

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't want to miss the C300iii for certain shots.
 
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