Choosing the right color profile on your monitor for editing

J

jthabel

Well-known member
I've been editing for years with the sRGB color profile on my Dell monitor, and I've found that most of the time my exported videos translate pretty well when played on other devices, with the web being my typical target audience. The "gold standard" I typically use to judge how well I've gotten my grade down is how well it looks on a supposedly calibrated 2020 MacBook pro, my Google Pixel phone, and my Dell monitor, which was the best Dell monitor you could drop a coin on for color reproduction seven years ago, with tons of color profile options, including Adobe RGB and sRGB. Still, I'm plagued and sometimes maddened by how my hard work will sometimes look like complete poop on TVs or on projected screens at film festivals. For the latter, the image quality fluctuates wildly based on the venue and how they project it. Anyway, my question is, what else can I do when editing my work (I use Adobe Premiere CC) to make sure the color translates *somewhat* universally between TVS, PCs, different venues, or is there really no magic option? I've read that sRGB is more for web use and Rec 709 is more for TV. Short of buying a 5k broadcast quality monitor, what are some of my options to make sure I'm making good on my delivery, and if it doesn't look good on whatever TV or screen it's being viewed on, that it's simply that user's problem. Thanks in advance!
 
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If you got yourself a Blackmagic UltraStudio monitor device (as low as $150) you would be able to output a real video signal to a real video monitor (via HDMI or SD) rather than relying on computer monitors. Even a decent consumer TV is good enough for basic grading if you don't already own a professional video monitor.

No color profiles needed. Just set the monitor up with color bars and you are off an running with peace of mind. Blackmagic devices work great with Resolve, Premiere, Catalyst Browse, etc. When you are working in the world of VIDEO production it is so important to be monitoring and making judgements based on a true VIDEO output signal.

The rule of thumb is this: If you can put your mouse cursor over the picture, then you are monitoring in a computer environment rather than video.
 
Speaking of professional video monitors, what would be a few great choices under 1000 dollars? I've been eyeballing the BenQ SW270C, but other recommendations are welcome.
 
I'm not an expert on monitors and I haven't purchased a new monitor for several years, so I can't give you specific advice. My primary monitor is a Sony PVM-1710 OLED that has served me very well for about a decade. BenQ is a name I associate with computer monitors and I have never seen one being used as a video monitor anywhere I've worked. Maybe they have a professional video monitor, but I would have no idea what it would be. The names I trust are companies that are well known in the video industry: Sony, Flanders, SmallHD, Atomos, etc.

In my opinion, a monitor must have SDI input (even if you choose to use HDMI anyway) and 10-bit color to be considered a professional monitor. Anything else is a computer monitor, or prosumer, or consumer. But like I said, a good consumer monitor that has been setup properly and is being fed a HDMI or SDI signal from a Blackmagic UltraStudio is good enough for basic grading if you also know how to read your scopes. If you don't mind me saying so, you are already grading with one hand tied behind your back my using Premiere instead of Resolve. If you were serious about grading you'd be using Resolve. I've never met a professional colorist who did their grading in Premeire. BTW, Resolve is free.
 
I'm working with Premiere CC with Magic Bullet, which is a pretty powerful color grading combo, and especially useful since everything can be done within Premiere and not in two separate applications, which in the past has been kind of a PITA workflow for me, especially when I have to go back and make editing changes after a grade... though I agree Resolve is a better and more powerful tool for the hard-core colorist, and I plan to start using that more consistently on future projects. Premiere's Lumetri capabilities are also getting better and better.

What attracts me to the BenQ video editing monitors is the built-in color correction hardware, which supposedly keep your color settings calibrated, much like the Blackmagic Ultrastudio HW Doug mentions above. They seem to get pretty good reviews, and I've seen them on more than a few editor's workbenches.

Obviously there's more than one way to skin a cat here. I'm curious to hear what hardware and software combos other working colorists are using out there. Back to my original question ... with the web and film festivals being my target audience, what's the best approach?
 
Doug Jensen said:
be able to output a real video signal to a real video monitor
Click to expand...

What is a 'real' monitor?An ipad that me and 200,000,000 other people have is a real monitor. An eizo is not a real monitor because it is not something any of your audience have.

I think the dell/google pixel/mac book is an excellent approach.

==

It is worth viewing some test images. say a grey scale from 0-100(%) - if everthing under 20% looks black your monitor is probably too off to make a nice look for audience monitors.
 
morgan_moore said:
What is a 'real' monitor?An ipad that me and 200,000,000 other people have is a real monitor.
Click to expand...

I was not aware that there is a device or cable that will allow a real-time video signal to be displayed on an iPad via HDMI or SDI. Please post a link because I want to buy one today. Thanks for the tip.
 
Doug Jensen said:
I was not aware that there is a device or cable that will allow a real-time video signal to be displayed on an iPad via HDMI or SDI. Please post a link because I want to buy one today. Thanks for the tip.
Click to expand...

Not via direct HDMI or SDI... but wirelessly....
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._400s_pro_sdi_hdmi.html/overview?sts=pi&pim=Y

I don't want to get in the middle of what will be an argument... but since Covid, I've begun taking my iPad Pro along with me on some shoots - as a monitoring device (via the Hollyland). Is it as "good" as my Panny or other expensive monitors? No. But it allows me to provide extra things for the client and has proven to be a reliable, very mobile (for fast moving / doc style set up's) monitoring device that comes with scopes & LUT support.
 
i didnt say there was. im saykng make your stuff look good on all these devices .. that might involve exporting and evaluating bits.
 
morgan_moore said:
i didnt say there was. im saykng make your stuff look good on all these devices .. that might involve exporting and evaluating bits.
Click to expand...

You don't think people know that an IPad can show video playback? The topic of this thread is about monitoring solutions DURING color grading. So unless you know of a device that allows real-time video input on an iPad, I fail to see how your comments are helpful to the conversation. Making your stuff look good on all these devices is the point of proper monitoring.
 
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There is no easy solution to this, unfortunately. The question effectively being asked here is what people spend five figures to answer.

Some home TVs are shockingly reasonable. The problem is that getting them to be reasonable is often quite difficult, with lots of controls to put in exactly the right place. You end up needing calibration regardless.

There is nothing particularly special about any iThing and the displays are no more accurate or repeatable than any other quality brand.

Personally I'd rather get any basically reasonable display and have a reputable home theatre company come in and cal it, which is probably at least as important as the gear itself.

P
 
during colour grading

I count the whole process, not just sitting inside one software or at one machine as 'during' - I get that sound nit picky but the is my genuine feeling (not a wind up). Having come from scanning negs, via fcp export colour shifts, im used to a colour process coming from a series of steps.

Clearly doing it inside one software one would need to have a brilliant monitor, brilliantly set up, and for it to run emulation luts or have a set of target device output transforms in place (ODT?). The uptlimate colour delivery would lead to a few files..
my_film_tv.mov
my_film_web.mov
my film_cinema.mov

I think the journey to get there is a long one.

Not checking work on a consumer device before delivery is sailing close to the wind.
 
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as mentioned before i grade films, tv episodic and some TVC's... the deliverables technical list for the feature i'm sending off to QC tomorrow is 5 pages long... some of the items are:

4k full DCDM letterboxed @ 48nit/P3, XYZ 16b Tiff
4K full DCDM letterboxed @ @ 300nit P3/D65 inside a 2020 cntainer / /2084, XYZ 16b Tiff
4Kscope DCP @ 48nit/P3
UHD letterboxed ProRez444XQ @ 1,000nit P3/D65/2084 with DolbyVision and HDR10+ to 600 & 100/709
UHD 16x9 full frame ProRez444XQ @ 1,000nit P3/D65/2084 with DolbyVision and HDR10+ to 600 & 100/709
2Kscope DCP @ 48nit/P3
2Kscope CTM @ 10b DPX, 48nit/P3
HD letterboxed ProRez444XQ
HD 16x9 full frame ProRez444XQ
a pile of h264 with burns and audio config's
a pile ofh265 files with varoius audio config's and Dolby/HDR10+ metadata
and all of the above x2 for markets outside USA, masters have difrent logos and credit roll
32 audio chanels as seperate .wav files
assocated close capton files
and then all the above for the trailer...
pulling & QCing all these deliverables takes about 20Tb of LTO tapes and a week - costs about the same a a small new car..that's just one indie feature with distb.

i bounced this film between four rooms,
- a room with Sony A250, used for conform and adding titles
- a room with a 55" LG CX, used for gradeing the SDR pass, so most of the time was in there
- a room with both a Sony x300 and a LG C1, used for the HDR pass and validateing / tweaking the Dolby /HDR10+ metadata
- a room with a 4k lazer projector for vlaidateing / twekaing the theatrical deliverables

not inexpensive, but the disb deal makes all that worthwhile for the flmmaker i belive

every viewing device in the chain is callibrated... i just grade, i'm not pulling this pile of joy, only spot checking the masters

callibration and clean signal path are king

in theory one can use a newer iPad pro in a Mac based Resolve as a clean feed mon, but not callibrateable
 
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Dermot said:
as mentioned before i grade films, tv episodic and some TVC's... the deliverables technical list for the feature i'm sending off to QC tomorrow is 5 pages long... some of the items are:

4k full DCDM letterboxed @ 48nit/P3, XYZ 16b Tiff
4K full DCDM letterboxed @ @ 300nit P3/D65 inside a 2020 cntainer / /2084, XYZ 16b Tiff
4Kscope DCP @ 48nit/P3
UHD letterboxed ProRez444XQ @ 1,000nit P3/D65/2084 with DolbyVision and HDR10+ to 600 & 100/709
UHD 16x9 full frame ProRez444XQ @ 1,000nit P3/D65/2084 with DolbyVision and HDR10+ to 600 & 100/709
2Kscope DCP @ 48nit/P3
2Kscope CTM @ 10b DPX, 48nit/P3
HD letterboxed ProRez444XQ
HD 16x9 full frame ProRez444XQ
a pile of h264 with burns and audio config's
a pile ofh265 files with varoius audio config's and Dolby/HDR10+ metadata
and all of the above x2 for markets outside USA, masters have difrent logos and credit roll
32 audio chanels as seperate .wav files
assocated close capton files
and then all the above for the trailer...
pulling & QCing all these deliverables takes about 20Tb of LTO tapes and a week - costs about the same a a small new car..that's just one indie feature with distb.

i bounced this film between four rooms,
- a room with Sony A250, used for conform and adding titles
- a room with a 55" LG CX, used for gradeing the SDR pass, so most of the time was in there
- a room with both a Sony x300 and a LG C1, used for the HDR pass and validateing / tweaking the Dolby /HDR10+ metadata
- a room with a 4k lazer projector for vlaidateing / twekaing the theatrical deliverables

not inexpensive, but the disb deal makes all that worthwhile for the flmmaker i belive

every viewing device in the chain is callibrated... i just grade, i'm not pulling this pile of joy, only spot checking the masters

callibration and clean signal path are king

in theory one can use a newer iPad pro in a Mac based Resolve as a clean feed mon, but not callibrateable
Click to expand...

Pretty eye opening. What do you do when you find discrepancies between the different displays. How do you decide which one's "accurate?"
 
Dermot said:
as mentioned before i grade films, tv episodic and some TVC's... the deliverables technical list for the feature i'm sending off to QC tomorrow is 5 pages long... some of the items are:

4k full DCDM letterboxed @ 48nit/P3, XYZ 16b Tiff
4K full DCDM letterboxed @ @ 300nit P3/D65 inside a 2020 cntainer / /2084, XYZ 16b Tiff
4Kscope DCP @ 48nit/P3
UHD letterboxed ProRez444XQ @ 1,000nit P3/D65/2084 with DolbyVision and HDR10+ to 600 & 100/709
UHD 16x9 full frame ProRez444XQ @ 1,000nit P3/D65/2084 with DolbyVision and HDR10+ to 600 & 100/709
2Kscope DCP @ 48nit/P3
2Kscope CTM @ 10b DPX, 48nit/P3
HD letterboxed ProRez444XQ
HD 16x9 full frame ProRez444XQ
a pile of h264 with burns and audio config's
a pile ofh265 files with varoius audio config's and Dolby/HDR10+ metadata
and all of the above x2 for markets outside USA, masters have difrent logos and credit roll
32 audio chanels as seperate .wav files
assocated close capton files
and then all the above for the trailer...
pulling & QCing all these deliverables takes about 20Tb of LTO tapes and a week - costs about the same a a small new car..that's just one indie feature with distb.

i bounced this film between four rooms,
- a room with Sony A250, used for conform and adding titles
- a room with a 55" LG CX, used for gradeing the SDR pass, so most of the time was in there
- a room with both a Sony x300 and a LG C1, used for the HDR pass and validateing / tweaking the Dolby /HDR10+ metadata
- a room with a 4k lazer projector for vlaidateing / twekaing the theatrical deliverables

not inexpensive, but the disb deal makes all that worthwhile for the flmmaker i belive

every viewing device in the chain is callibrated... i just grade, i'm not pulling this pile of joy, only spot checking the masters

callibration and clean signal path are king

in theory one can use a newer iPad pro in a Mac based Resolve as a clean feed mon, but not callibrateable
Click to expand...

This is why I still check in to this forum - to get real world discussion - from those with totally different experiences and skill sets different than my own. Appreciate the informative post Dermot - it is eye opening! I'm curious to know how much you use ACES - or if that's part of your particular workflow with having some many various outputs?
 
markfpv:
ACEScct near 100% of the time, it's a hard and fast delvierable for some streaming services, but i have been using it for years now, first with Nucoda and Baselight, as they supported it before Resolve did, and the recent changes in Resolve to incorprate colorspace aware tools was very welcome, and helped level the playing field

jthabel:
all screens are callibrated to values well below the threshold of human vision, leaving metamuric failure as the only stress point, we try not to have two hero displays on at the same time if they are narrow bandwidth devices, ie RGB|OLED or lazer projecton, we need an XY offset to match the x300 to the WRGB OLED perceptualy, that's as good as it gets as metamuric failure is diffrent for every person viewing a given screen
 
jthabel said:
Speaking of professional video monitors, what would be a few great choices under 1000 dollars? I've been eyeballing the BenQ SW270C, but other recommendations are welcome.
Click to expand...

I am using Flanders Scientific AM 210 - it is called a professional monitor, however there are better ones but it is very close. They no longer make it but you can check their site for the newer models. It is calibrated and has SDI in. If you really want to view a calibrated broadcast image then you will need a descent professional monitor. I think the BENQ has HDMI in and takes the output from a video card. Not a real I/O video output device.
 
Dermot said:
markfpv:
ACEScct near 100% of the time, it's a hard and fast delvierable for some streaming services, but i have been using it for years now, first with Nucoda and Baselight, as they supported it before Resolve did, and the recent changes in Resolve to incorprate colorspace aware tools was very welcome, and helped level the playing field
Click to expand...

Thanks - missed your reply until now.
 
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