'The Cake' - The Allentown Film Crew

[Norm Sanders]

It's LATE, but I made a commitment to watch, rate, and comment on all the films before nights end. At this point, I've only got time to watch & rate, so I'm simply letting you know I've done so for yours.

If you'd like a specific review of your film, please just PM me to catch my attention, and I'd be glad to come back here & post a review.

 

[punkmonkeyed]

I liked this a little better than your last film but this one still didn't quite do it for me.

I felt the story was flat. Everything was pretty much laid out 1-2-3 and it unfolded that way. I never wondered if the two were going to get together...everything pointed that way and played out that way with no real hurdles. Perhaps you meant for the Black Cat to be a stumbling block but it was obvious the guy wasn't buying it.

Another problem you had was that the Liberace character was more interesting than your lead. I would have spent a little less time on him and used it to make your lead more interesting. His main purpose seemed to be to distract her so the earring could "get lost" and to set up the fact that she liked the Jesse. I would have liked to have seen her a little more uncomfortable around him since you set that feeling up in the cake baking scene with Liberace.

I completely agree with this criticism. I think you’ve totally isolated one of the shortcomings with this production. It’s not my purpose to insult anyone in the group, especially Vanessa (our writer) who is a very capable and thoughtful person, but I never felt like the script was overly strong. It’s difficult to write characters that make us care.
I should mention that I’ve always been on the technical side of the things (I was editor and DP on The Cake) and thinking about story is a new thing for me. When this script was chosen I honestly thought the script weakness wouldn’t matter, that we would will it into being by the force of our technical competency, which I now realize was fundamentally wrong. I do take issue with some of the comments on this board that claim we made technical errors. There were a few glitches but nothing major (more on this later). We definitely need to spend more time in script development before we roll tape (or P2 card or whatever). That is not to say that I’m so brilliant that I could have done better. Clearly I didn’t offer any suggestions to make it better; I curled up in my own comfy spot behind the monitor and let it ride.

 

[punkmonkeyed]

This movie makes me miss strange costume party days...

I like the overall tone and feel. Well paced for the most part and you've developed some interesting characters.

Speaking from a cinematography perspective... I feel the majority of your shots were too close to your subjects and the lens choice too wide... I found myself feeling the presence of the camera too often and this is usually a result of that shooting style. I would have liked to have seen more distance and longer focal lengths, just slightly... I think it'd give you a more cinematic feel to your films.

Story wise... I get it, yet I'm not sure what you entirely set out to achieve. I guess the ending felt a little forced to me... them getting together... although I do like 'how' they do it because of that mistake in the cake. I think it's more the way they act in that final scene, a little too comfortable perhaps? I'm not sure. But thinking of it right now... I think the guy was a little more believable, I sensed more of a strain in him, yet the girl seemed too relaxed given her feelings. Anyhoo, thanks for sharing and look forward to more from you.

I respect your opinion and you may have a point but I don't think it applies to this circumstance. Perhaps in a perfect world, where budget is not an issue, we could have chosen the perfect optics for this production, but we use the tools we have available and that meant using a fixed-lens camera. Nobody had access to a 35mm adapter so that was not an option.
I straight up disagree that shots were too close. If I had my hearts desire I would have been closer. That’s not to say there are not problems here, there were plenty. I wanted lots more coverage, lots more. This production was shot in two days. I think we should have had at least three but we could have comfortably used four. Many of my planned shots never got past the AD. For example, Margot’s reversals in the kitchen sequence with Liberace (at the beginning) were just never shot. I dropped the ball there because I should have insisted that we get her close-ups. We were quite rushed and there was a feeling of “we gotta keep moving”. Things got forgotten or abandon too readily and it negatively impacted the production.
We had other problems that impacted the look, which made the image feel “small” (less cinematic). Our location was limited in some respects. The script called for a city street for the opening shot, which would have been interesting and cinematic. (This was also a time budget issue.) I think if we had shot it in the way that I originally envisioned, the opening shot with Liberace (a nice jib down, cut with a montage of his strutting fabulous self) would have felt really big.
So, in the final analysis, I feel that we did capture some of what we set out to do but also made compromises in favor of time and budget and these compromises did degrade the over-all product. I think there were problems at all levels of the production but it was a good learning experience.
By the way, someone mentioned that the party move was shaky. Shaky wasn’t the problem there. The real problem was that our camera operator insists on leaving the image stabilization on and that caused the image to drag. Another lesson learned. I’ll make sure I’ll watch for that in the future.

 

[Jane Doe]

Hey, why is Ed allowed to disagree with the criticism without being blasted with insults?

This board is sexist, I tell you! :angry:
First thing tomorrow, I'm growing a penis.

Ok, in all seriousness...

Ed, I agree with your comments. You did what you could with what you had. Or, more specifically, we did our best, given our limitations.

 

[Rodney V. Smith]

Hey, why is Ed allowed to disagree with the criticism without being blasted with insults?
.

Some of us may be trying to process this. I know I am. As a filmmaker, I try to take critiques and grow from my mistakes, but first I acknowledge them. When I put a film out I am already aware of it's problems, so to have them spoken back to me is a bit of reaffirmation of what we did wrong.

However a lot of us try not to be so defensive to make excuses for what we did. Some things can't be helped and we have explanations. Other things can be helped or simply improved and no amount of excuses will fix that. What you've put out for judgement is simpy what you've put and we can only judge based on that.

Jane, you sounded like you were having a very public argument with your director. That may be cause for the responses.

 

[Jane Doe]

Jane, you sounded like you were having a very public argument with your director. That may be cause for the responses.

No, that is completely incorrect. That guy was not involved with our project.

To be brief, I disagreed with a stranger's opinion and he behaved in a way that was completely inappropriate. I did not deserve to be berated with profanity for simply standing by my opinion.

Ok, maybe I won't grow a penis, I'll just change my name. How does "John Doe" sound?

 

[punkmonkeyed]

No, that is completely incorrect. That guy was not involved with our project.

To be brief, I disagreed with a stranger's opinion and he behaved in a way that was completely inappropriate. I did not deserve to be berated with profanity for simply standing by my opinion.

Ok, maybe I won't grow a penis, I'll just change my name. How does "John Doe" sound?

Jane, it's all good. These guys are just serious filmies and they're blunt in their comments. I don't think anybody meant anything by it.
This thing is going to turn into a flame war very quickly. It's probably best not to poke this bruise.

 

[tashlan2]

I completely agree with this criticism. I think you’ve totally isolated one of the shortcomings with this production. It’s not my purpose to insult anyone in the group, especially Vanessa (our writer) who is a very capable and thoughtful person, but I never felt like the script was overly strong. It’s difficult to write characters that make us care.
I should mention that I’ve always been on the technical side of the things (I was editor and DP on The Cake) and thinking about story is a new thing for me. When this script was chosen I honestly thought the script weakness wouldn’t matter, that we would will it into being by the force of our technical competency, which I now realize was fundamentally wrong. I do take issue with some of the comments on this board that claim we made technical errors. There were a few glitches but nothing major (more on this later). We definitely need to spend more time in script development before we roll tape (or P2 card or whatever). That is not to say that I’m so brilliant that I could have done better. Clearly I didn’t offer any suggestions to make it better; I curled up in my own comfy spot behind the monitor and let it ride.

Now that I'm able to stand back from this whole film, of course I'm able to see how flat the majority of the characters were. I do wish that somebody had said something and I could have worked on the script more. I understand that movies go through countless rewrites, and my feelings would not have been hurt by any suggestions. I would have welcomed them. We did have someone else in the group look at the script but I did not feel that any of the suggestions were very helpful. The suggestions were totally not in the spirit of what I was writing and certainly did not help in the way of character development or plot.
Maybe now we all know each other a little better and won't be afraid to express our opinions if we feel it will be helpful. I just wish it could have happened on this one. On the next one, we can try to flesh out the storyline and the kind of film we want to make.
It was hard for me to see the faults because I had played the script out in my head so many times that the characters lived for me even if they didn't for other people. To be
honest, I was just happy to have something I wrote made into a film.

 

[Rodney V. Smith]

ake.
It was hard for me to see the faults because I had played the script out in my head so many times that the characters lived for me even if they didn't for other people. To be
honest, I was just happy to have something I wrote made into a film.

Sometimes you gotta be your own worst critic. Encorage everyone in the group to speak up with ideas and don;t shoot anything down. write them all down. Most times people just want to be heard.. they don;t need to be right. Working in a group is tough, but most times these people can see things that you can't, so the key is to be completely open and be ready to rewrite everything.

Complete rewrites on "Falling Up"? 11 before I got something that worked.