Shooting mode for a Pop video 16:9 (50i or 25p)

D

DoubleHigh

Member
Hi All,


I'm due to shoot a pop video on my DVX100A. I'll be shooting in a studio with a white backdrop (sheets). I'll have 3 or 4 studio lights. I'll be working with a choreographer and multiple dancers. The footage needs to be in 16:9.
Now I've never used 16:9 on the DVX. But I guess 'squeeze' mode is the way forward?

I've done tests at home shooting in both 50i & 25p (all other scene file settings the same - default scene file1) then putting onto DVD using DVDStudio Pro, and playing back through my TV.

When shooting 16:9 in 50i there is a lot of noticeable staircasing on diagonal edges (e.g. vase with diagonal edges), the rest of the frame looks a lot more blocky (noticeable more on a persons face). The staircasing isn't visible so much in 25p nor in 50i 4:3.
The 16:9 25p footage looks fine regarding the staircasing, so it looks like I'll have to shoot in 25p.

Is this normal?

I have a kind of fundamental DVX question really: What are the benefits and drawbacks of shooting in 25p on this kind of shoot when all other setting are the same (same scene-file altering only the 'progressive' setting.


I'll be editing/delivering using Final Cut Studio 2.

Thanks in advance...
 
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Yes, your findings are correct. Interlaced and SQUEEZE mode do not look good together.

25p will give a more film-like look. It's the way to go for anything but news/sports.
 
First, use squeeze. It makes a beautiful 16:9 image.

Second, you need to understand a lot more about what the camera settings are besides the progressive options.

That "staircasing" that you see is from interlaced video (the "i" in 50i). This comes from the fact that each frame is comprised of two separate sets of scan lines, or fields, that interlace to form a complete image. Because the fields alternate, you will notice the jagged edges between fields when watching on a progressive monitor, especially with lots of movement in the image.

Shooting in 25P means that you are shooting progressive (the "P" in 25P). This means that each frame is a complete image, without alternating fields. Thus, no staircasing.

As for all the other settings... the choice of progressive vs. interlaced has very little to do with the other settings in the scene file. All those settings are used to shape the image in terms of color, edge sharpness, gamma curve, etc. It does not matter if you are shooting with progressive on or off... the other settings are independent. But they all work together to create the look you want. Get Barry Green's DVX book... it'll explain everything about the settings.

The benefits of shooting in progressive mode: you get away from interlacing, so no jagged edges; you can combine it with the cine gamma settings to get a very film-like texture; it is compatible across all viewing tagets (Internet, DVD, old-school CRT TVs and new plasma/LCD screens).

Do some test shots in 25P and squeeze mode. Use that test footage to play with your workflow and make sure that you are able to do with it what you need to do.
 
Hello everybody,
DoubleHigh forgive me for hijacking your thread, but I have a few questions related to your subject...
So, how can someone shoot interlaced 16:9 with the dvx? I ve made a few tests and I can also notice that staircasing in the footage. I m not sure of course how noticeable can be to the eyes of the average viewer but I guess that depending on what you are shooting it can be realy ugly...
Does anybody here shot interlaced/squeeze?
If yes, are there any tips to eliminate that staircasing effect? Lower detail levels may be...? Perhaps something in post?
Anyway there is always the option of shooting 4:3 and frame for 16:9, but If the footage needs to be delivered as a 16:9 dvd it ll have to pass through the pan n scan procedure so the quality loss ll be big.
Any thoughts?
 
lyrov said:
So, how can someone shoot interlaced 16:9 with the dvx?
Click to expand...

Turn SQUEEZE on and PROGRESSIVE off: 16:9 interlaced. In my experience, it doesn't look all that good, but it can be done.

I ve made a few tests and I can also notice that staircasing in the footage.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by staircasing? Normal interlacing lines like this:

interlacing-06.jpg


Or just cruddy resolution when playing back on an interlaced tube TV?

Post a frame grab. Let's see what problem we're actually dealing with here.
 
Thanks for the reply Joshua,

I guess my first question should ve been "how can someone shoot interlaced 16:9 with the dvx...and make it look good?"

Anyway, interlacing lines will always be in the footage when shot 50i wether in squeeze mode or not.

The difference between interlaced/squeeze and interlaced/normal is more about how the camera is dealing with the lines in each of the one from the above modes...

While you ll not see any difference in some frame grabs (interlacing will be exactly the same), there is a big difference when watching the footage being played in any kind of tv (CRT or LCD).

And the footage recorded with interlaced/squeeze mode is noticeable worst, but not so about its interlacing as about its general appearance...like cruddy resolution as you said.

Well, I dont think it can be any better in any way and thats bad but thats just how it is...

Thanks again...
 
Are you using THICK, MEDIUM, or THIN in your scene file? Should always be THIN when shooting SQUEEZE, whether progressive or interlace. If you already are using THIN, then what your getting is about as good as it gets.
 
Well, there is no THIN in interlaced; the Vert Freq Detail setting exists because progressive video can be too high-res for interlaced TVs and cause a flicker; you set it to THICK or MID to avoid that.

In progressive, the THIN mode *can* give a stair-step type artifact on diagonals when viewed on a standard TV, though it should be much less of a problem when shooting in Squeeze. So, yeah -- shoot Squeeze. :)
 
Thank you both for your answers,

So, squeeze and progressive make a perfect couple...thats easy to see...

As for interlaced and squeeze, they just dont fit together...

Actually, cropping and stretching in post is giving better results (especially if you re delivering to DVD) than shooting interlaced/squeeze...at least thats what I ve seen so far...
 
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