What Camera should I buy? Canon XHA1 or Panasonic HVX200

samhendi

samhendi

Member
Hi guys, I’m in need of some help and expertise and since many of you know cameras better than me, I thought id place up a thread for some help.

The camera I have at the moment is a Sony HVR-V1E.
Some of my work can be viewed here: http://vimeo.com/user496836

I’ve had my camera for about 2 years but recently I haven’t been too happy with my camera. I’ve been feeling to change because of many reasons. One of my main reasons is because I don’t see that the HVR-V1E gives me professional look like film even though I am using the Letus35 extreme. Its mainly due to the motion of the frame rate and with whatever I do (interlace or progressive) I still see unpleasing results. I’m also trying to stay away from Sony and want to try something different.

So I’ve been researching into these two cameras: XHA1 and HVX200. But I’m not too sure which one would ideally be better for me. In my new camera, I am ideally looking for a professional film like quality with the frame-rate mainly and of course its quality of image.

I’ve found some interesting videos filmed with the XHA1 and the film-like quality that has been shown is amazing, not to mention that the videos are amazing too:
http://www.vimeo.com/1853294
http://www.vimeo.com/1448101

From looking at those videos, I can see that they have used an adapter and the quality looks amazing. The frame motion looks like a film and the quality of the images also looks like film. This is a large difference from what my Sony HVR-V1E camera will give me using my Letus35 extreme.

Whilst researching the HVX200, I found these great videos too:
http://vimeo.com/1493848
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGXqJN0RtEo

Could anyone please tell me the advantages and disadvantages of both the HVX200 and XHA1??
One of my biggest problems is the P2 recording on the HVX200, since id like to keep a backup of my raw files on tape, recording onto a P2 card will be a problem. But im not too sure of any problems with XHA1. Does anybody know any??

Would anyone know of a better camera than these two??

Since I don’t actually where I should post this thread, I decided to post it this forum since im edging towards the Canon more than the Panasonic.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Sam
 
changed 4:1:1 to 4:2:0

changed 4:1:1 to 4:2:0

For me it came down to a price issue. Even buying used today you can get an HVX200 for as low as 2500, but as high as 3500, some people have paid even less. XHa1's go for 2000-2600, so the you could be spending almost $1,000 more for the camera body, but then you have to buy P2 which is ridiculously expensive. The HVX200 I think is a better camera. It has 4:2:2 pulldown where as HDV can only muster 4:2:0. That being said, if you have an extra $2000 or so to spend on a camera go HVX, otherwise XHA1 will do just fine.
 
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On paper the HVX is better, but you can find people that swear by both. I was considering the 200, 200a and 170. I could afford the price of the camera, but not the p2 cards. So then, I realized that the 150 was the best choice. Same chips at the 200a, same lens as the 170 and records on cheap SDHC cards. My A1 broke a month ago, and I decided on the 150.
 
Hi thanks for the replys.

Im also wondering about the HVX200, the problem is the high price and of course the price for the P2 cards so i want to steer away from the camera and maybe into the direction of the XHA1.

Does the XHA1 give off a better film looking quality than the HVX200??

The HVX200 I think is a better camera. It has 4:2:2 pulldown where as HDV can only muster 4:1:1
Click to expand...

Is this important? what will it affect?

Thanks
 
hdv is 4:2:0 not 4:1:1 and that number refers to color sampling and not pulldown. check out barry green's article http://dvxuser.com/articles/colorspace/

the advantage is there (in favor of hvx) but due to the nature of how the hvx gets it's hd image, it's not as wide a gap as some make it out to be.

i say just buy what you can afford and whichever workflow suits you best as both are great cameras. imo, a1 is the better value-to-performance of the two)

i went with the a1 because there was no affordable archive solution for p2 at the time. shooting tape gives me an instant archive of the raw. now with blu ray becoming a bit more affordable i am feeling the urge to go tapeless, but at least i still have the option of the sony cf recorder which can do tape and card simultaneously.
 
When the A1 and Sony V1 were announced I debated which one to get, eventually siding with the Canon. I love my A1. It is a joy to use. I'm so glad that I choose it over the Sony.

As much as I love using the A1, if I were in your position I'd seriously consider the Panasonic HMC150, especially if your computer/editing software can handle AVC-HD or you don't mind transcoding to a more manageable codec. Since it is newer it will be a little more expensive than going with an A1 though.

The other thing is that now there are these HD video DSLR's looming on the horizon. You might want to research those a bit before deciding. Of course, since you already have a 35mm adapter, all you need to do is replace the camera. If you can sell your Sony V1 for around $2,000 (+ or - a couple hundred or so) then you should be able to find a used A1 for about $2,200 to $2,600. I wouldn't worry about the A1s, since it really doesn't have anything different or newer about it that is worth the extra cash.

As for the HVX200, I haven't shot with it but I like the images it produces. If you can afford the P2 cards and that style of on-set and post workflow is something you can manage then great. The A1 or HMC150 both have the advantage of cheap media and long recording times.

Since the technology is changing so fast now, I wouldn't spend too much on a new or used camera just yet. There is the whole HD DSLR thing that is starting off and the RED Scarlet as well a little farther down the line. But if you are that unhappy with the V1, then you could sell it for close to or the same as a used A1 would cost.
 
Hi thanks for the replys.

One main problem i am really changing my camera is because of the motion in the frames.

Ive tried making films using the 25p progressive mode or 1/50 shutter speed and interlaced mode but for some reason, when im watching over my footage with the Sony the motion in the frames almost look blurred or some sort of ghosting between frames. Ive even rendered 23.976 with After Effects and i still get the same.

I hoping that if i purchase the Canon that i wont get a problem like this?
 
The XH-A1 is a better resolution imagine, and an all-around better camera in my eyes, that's why I purchased it over the HVX200. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xa0RNygVpE&fmt=22 There is something I shot with an XH-A1s fresh out of the box, no presets, no nothing, just to give you an idea of what type of image the camera will product for you completely stock. Only thing that was done to the footage was a very slight luma curve correction and it was cropped to 2.40:1 before encoding. The shots are a combination of 1/48th shutter speed, and 1/250th shutter speed for the darker/bloodier shots.
 
Methane said:
The HVX200 I think is a better camera. It has 4:2:2 pulldown where as HDV can only muster 4:2:0. That being said, if you have an extra $2000 or so to spend on a camera go HVX, otherwise XHA1 will do just fine.
Click to expand...

You can capture footage from XHA1 in FCP 6 using the ProRes 422 which gives you 4:2:2 chroma sampling, 10-bit sample depth, I frame-only encoding, Normal 145 Mbit/s and High-Quality 220 Mbit/s for HD resolution at 60i, Normal 42 Mbit/s and High-Quality 63 Mbit/s for SD resolution at 29.97.

That is if you are using FCS 2 for your post.
 
it's still shot as 4:2:0 color space. Converting to ProRes doesn't alter that fact just gives you a little more headroom edting. I still prefer to edit HDV and render to ProRes since file sizes are smaller

As to the OP's post. I am an A1 user. It's a fantastic camera. HVX's are selling pretty cheap these days so they are a real option. P2 is really expensive however. And the HVX 200's are pretty heavy.

If I were buying new I would go with the newest technology I could afford. AVCHD seems to be getting high marks and people claim it's a better codec than HDV. The fact that Camera's are going solid state also can't be overlooked. However the hassle editing AVCHD right now might be an issue for some people. I wish I could just drag footage into a FCP timeline like the new JVC's will.

I am looking for a second camera. I'd love to get another Canon although I am putoff by the fact that they aren't solid state yet. If the price of the A1's drop to the price of the HMC 150 I'd probably get one. If not I'm seriously considering the HMC 150. I used the DVX 100 for years and loved that cam so I have a lot of faith in Panasonic Professional products.
 
Having shot a lot with both, here's my list of pros and cons:

XH A1

+Cheaper
+Lighter
+Much better zoom servo
+More options for in-camera looks
+Sharper resolution
+Peaking focus assist mode
+Real iris ring
+Cheap MiniDV tapes
+Focus and zoom recall

-No manual lens controls, all servo all the time
-Can't focus and zoom at the same time
-Barrel distortion at full wide
-Less luma range
-HDV is less flexible in post than DVCPROHD
-No real overcranking option (you can fake it by deinterlacing 60i, but you lose resolution)

When I bought my XH A1, it was half the cost of an HVX, and a complete no-brainer. Once you get over the quirks, it puts out an image that competes very well with the HVX, especially with the Panalook and Panavision presets.

That said, if I were to buy a camera right now it would be the HMC 150 hands down. If the 150 starts hitting the used market any time soon, I'll consider trading up.
 
Thank you for the help guys, it has helped me a lot in making my decision.

Im putting my Camera on sale on ebay tomorrow and will be looking to purchase my Canon XHA1 next week.

If anyone is interested in a Sony HVR-V1E please let me know.

Thanks again.
Sam
 
Excellent choice, Sam. I went with the A1 over the 200 for the simple fact that I shoot events - I may need to capture 4 or 5 hours of footage in a pretty much continuous shot, and the HVX200 would have really made that inconvenient, requiring either a LOT of P2 cards, or an extra person to wrangle media.

Another advantage is the CCDs - The A1 has 3 1440x1080 (HDV native resolution) sensors, whereas the 200 has 3 960x540 sensors, and uses pixel shifting to get the HD image. Don't get me wrong, the HVX is an excellent camera, and I would happily own one if I was doing the type of work it's meant for, but as I do primarily live events, the A1 simply made more sense.
 
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I am hoping they will announce a AVCHD version that records to SD cards for the next round of A1 upgrades. That would be a sweet little camera for fast action shooting. I love the instant autofocus, really sweet OIS and the 20x glass on it.
 
Having shot with both I've never seen 4:2:2 making that big of a deal unless it's for green screen work. I like to push my footage heavily in post with CC and the HDV codec has never "break" as far as I could tell. If anything, I actually prefer to CC A1 footage over the HVX because the HVX exhibits splotchy noise level while the A1 (while having roughly the same sensitivity) has a much finer noise structure that's not as noticeable.
 
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