Skew-Off: EX1 vs. prototype HPX300

David S. said:
About that fast pan footage?

That certainly would help a bunch of people to decide.
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I don't have any, but I can say that if it's 720/60p or 1080/60i or 720/24p you want, it'll do as good or better than the EX1, EX3, etc. So until someone gives you what you're looking for, take a look at EX1 footage and see what you think.

But if it's fast-pan 1080/24p you want... well... not gonna be the best for that in its current state. Hopefully a firmware update will be forthcoming that will make the 1080/24p skew performance comparable with all the other modes.
 
What's this about the lectro receivers? Something for audio or wireless video?



I"ve jumped ship to the SD150. But I'd have to say I'm interested in this camera for a couple of interesting points.


1. I want to get more filmlike narrow DOF with an interchangable lens options... that's amazing... and.... this would save about 2k in getting a 35mm package... along with allowing for the option to rent some good class.. That isn't too expensive an option...



2. Look at how EXPENSIVE this camera LOOKS. That's something for clients and I'd say it doesn't look like it's anywhere in the EX3 or EX1 class. Just looks like it should cost 5 or 10 times the money. In this world... Image kind of accounts for a lot with client perception. They want a big camera.. to justify big budget costs...


Man... EX1 sharpness... real lens.. and Panny MO-JO. I think this might be the EX series killer.. This camera coupled with the 150 for mor action stuff and run and gun and this might be a perfect combo... I might have to resind my P2 card rantings. This just looks so darn promising...
 
Again, this is also what I am looking at.

But it so difficult to evaluate when no professional video is even close by.

I've tried to correspond with the Seattle based Panasonic rep to take a look at the cam.

I've even offered to go to Seattle to view it.

but I can't get that confirmed at all.

Not the best when you aren't in a major city
 
David S. said:
Again, this is also what I am looking at.
But it so difficult to evaluate when no professional video is even close by.
I've tried to correspond with the Seattle based Panasonic rep to take a look at the cam.
I've even offered to go to Seattle to view it but I can't get that confirmed at all.
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He is busy. He has been in Alsaka this last week with his demo unit. He doesn't have time to lone it for a review. If you need a review, you need to contact me off line. We will put you in line. Ask Bill when he will be at a dealer near you. Not sure there is one on you side of the state. I am sure Bill will get back to you. But your initial communication to him seemed to indicate that you wanted the camera for longer than a look-see. Somehow you made it sound as though you need his camera for a review, I told him to hav you contact me for a review camera. That might be a breakdown in the communication. Bill should be back, if you just want a look-see, if you want to do a review, the contact me off-line.

Best,

Jan
 
David S. said:
About that fast pan footage?
That certainly would help a bunch of people to decide.
I sound like a voice crying in the wilderness, but I'm one of those people who wants to evalaute footage, not charts.
Not trying to be a pest, but some native footage shot with this concern in mind might go a long way to sell a bunch of hardware

best :)
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I will have some some but in the 720P mode going up soon.

Best,

Jan
 
I think this might be the EX series killer...
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??? You gotta love the "this camera will kill that camera" comments! No camera kills another, except usually the manufacturer of the said camera when they upgrade it. The HVX200a was an HVX200 killer.

Having three 1/2" chips in a small-form EX1 cannot be touched by any camera. You like "big expensive looking cameras" to impress... I like the smallest form factor with the highest quality I can get... I want impressive footage, not imprssive looks from others. And I'm not alone, that's the magic of the EX1 and why it is so popular. I can't mount a HPX300 on my kayak deck very easily, or take it easily on multi-day backpacking trips, or up a mountain, or snowboard with it. How is the HPX300 gonna 'kill' the EX1 in that regard? Three 1/3" chips in a large camera with interchangeable lenses that costs 1.5 times the EX1? I'm sure (and hope) there's a great market for the HPX300, I'm sure it'a fine camera, but it's certainly no EX killer. And if you gave someone shooting my kind of footage the choice of these two cameras, the EX1 or the HPX300, for the same price, I wouldn't even hesitate a second to jump on the EX1 and hit the hills. Cameras don't kill each other, ha!
 
Barry, Jan and Panasonic,

Bravo. This is what I'm talking about. Aknowledging the issue before the camera ships, looking for it and going for a solution. You knew this was going to be commented and tested ad nauseam by the people in the field, so it was important to hear this from Panasonic. It proves they know there's a problem and will try to fix it.

Having aknowledged the problem, however, I would find wise to really wait for the fix, at least for me. 1080 24p/25p is what I would mainly use the camera for shooting- that and 720 60p slow motion (this works fine, I believe), so if this mode is 80% worse than the EX1, than its obviously underperforming for digital cinema.

Barry, Jan, did the engineers said this was fixable? Is the Pn writting too processor intensitive to delay the read speed? The million dollar question is: is this fixable with a firmware update?

That's why I really urge Panasonic to hold the camera just that tiny bit longer. It can mean months, but while it won't damage Broadcasters perception and image of Panasonic gear, since they mainly use 60i/50i or 60p, in the Indie, Production house and content production companies, the camera, as is, can create a serious backlash and bad word of mouth- not unlike what the split screen effect did to the JVC100 series.

Do not rush it. If you are performing better in some modes, you can certainly improve on the one (major one!) that's lacking!
 
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Buck Forester said:
??? You gotta love the "this camera will kill that camera" comments! No camera kills another, except usually the manufacturer of the said camera when they upgrade it. The HVX200a was an HVX200 killer.

Having three 1/2" chips in a small-form EX1 cannot be touched by any camera. You like "big expensive looking cameras" to impress... I like the smallest form factor with the highest quality I can get... I want impressive footage, not imprssive looks from others. And I'm not alone, that's the magic of the EX1 and why it is so popular. I can't mount a HPX300 on my kayak deck very easily, or take it easily on multi-day backpacking trips, or up a mountain, or snowboard with it. How is the HPX300 gonna 'kill' the EX1 in that regard? Three 1/3" chips in a large camera with interchangeable lenses that costs 1.5 times the EX1? I'm sure (and hope) there's a great market for the HPX300, I'm sure it'a fine camera, but it's certainly no EX killer. And if you gave someone shooting my kind of footage the choice of these two cameras, the EX1 or the HPX300, for the same price, I wouldn't even hesitate a second to jump on the EX1 and hit the hills. Cameras don't kill each other, ha!
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Actually they do kill people... financially and if it's big enough.. from falling on them.
 
Actually they do kill people... financially and if it's big enough.. from falling on them.
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Of course cameras kill 'people', everyone knows this (I think cameras are the second leading cause of human deaths, second only to ladybug bites)... I said cameras don't kill other cameras. Unless they're cannibals.
 
Actually the outcome of the Panasonic is not impressive at all when you consider that the read reset of Cmos is happening across a 1/3 inch chip area compared to the larger 1/2 inch chip size area of the EX1.
The Sony EX1 gets more impressive everyday.
 
Buck Forester said:
Of course cameras kill 'people', everyone knows this (I think cameras are the second leading cause of human deaths, second only to ladybug bites)... I said cameras don't kill other cameras. Unless they're cannibals.
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Actually cameras CAN kill cameras. Take Barry and Jan's test for example. Invert the order of mounting of both cameras, add a matebox, follow focus, 35 MM adapter and rails to the HPX while you're at it and the EX1 would be very close to "killed"... :)
 
Is there a chance that grabbing one particular frame in time produces different results for each snapshot? So say 1 of 24 may be worse than 10 of 24?

Anyway, absolute respect to Panasonic et al for being this open and willing to do this. This kind of thing does more for me when making a purchasing decision than the product alone; to know how hard they try to please the consumer. Breeds loyalty. (even if Panasonic europe are not in the same ball park as panny stateside.)
 
mico said:
Actually the outcome of the Panasonic is not impressive at all when you consider that the read reset of Cmos is happening across a 1/3 inch chip area compared to the larger 1/2 inch chip size area of the EX1.
The Sony EX1 gets more impressive everyday.
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It is still scanning 1080 horizontal lines even though the chip is smaller, right?
 
kevinM said:
It is still scanning 1080 horizontal lines even though the chip is smaller, right?
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I think he is saying that due to the size difference of the chips-1/3 vs 1/2- if the results are very similar in most areas, the fact that one has a bigger chip will actually mean less skew when porsuing shallower DOF shots- A smaller chip requires a bigger zoom than a bigger chip for a similar DOF- which will mean, in practical terms, more skew.
 
Yeah I gonna agree apples and oranges; i mean who cares who kills who i just want a camera that goes, no rolling shutter issues period, improvement all round is good I say, I used to think Phillip Bloom was sony bias, but thank God hes just a gr8 dp who wants the best gear, its about time panny got some stuff sorted I've been crying trying to shoot with these monitors (502, 202) nice test lets us know where that camera is at. I hope firmware will be a happening thing.
 
SPZ said:
I think he is saying that due to the size difference of the chips-1/3 vs 1/2- if the results are very similar in most areas, the fact that one has a bigger chip will actually mean less skew when porsuing shallower DOF shots- A smaller chip requires a bigger zoom than a bigger chip for a similar DOF- which will mean, in practical terms, more skew.
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I'm not sure how this makes any sense. With the same field of view, the HPX300 is showing the same or less skew in every case but one.

The relative magnification of the shot is what contributes to the skew level; the smaller chip will require more telephoto to match the DOF of the bigger chip, which will increase the magnification, but will be proportionally further away too, in order to match the field of view, which will decrease the magnification. The net result should be that regardless of chip size, for the same field of view the skew should be the same because the relative magnification and motion of the image should be the same.
 
kevinM said:
It is still scanning 1080 horizontal lines even though the chip is smaller, right?
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Yes.

Don't really get what the chip size is supposed to have to do with the skew; Jim Arthurs took a Red One and mounted an EX1 on top of it, just like I did with the 300/EX1, and he found that they had identical skew. The Red One's sensor is *massively* larger than the EX1's, yet the skew was the same.

Skew's skew. Sensor size (alone) is irrelevant, as to the amount of skewing going on.
 
Reporting the good and the bad - like it! Thanks Barry.

...and, I'm a Final Cut Studio 2 kind of guy and haven't looked into it yet - but does FCP support AvcIntra 100/50 yet, or are we doing a transcode to Prores for now?

Thanks,
Lonnie
 
I´m shaking in my bed dreaming what camera should i buy... horrible feeling. it´s like a junkie and he has to choose between 2 similar drugs. T_T sad.... to sad...

Waiting on improvements for the skew of the 1080/24p format.

thanks everyone for the details.

Damian
 
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