FEATURE: DEUCE OF SPADES - How I made a period full feature film all by myself on ZERO budget

[Deuceofspades]

Faith,

You are far too kind, I'm glad to help out. It's a fantastic project, and working with you on it is a blast. Your enthusiasm and drive are very contagious! : )

Hopefully the other shots will turn out just as good as this first one did. I can't wait to see this film cut together and finished, it's going to rock!

Chris

hey , I edited until 5 Am this morning. Crazy eh?

I put the CGI hook shot in the scene and it looks GREAT. Can't see the swelling of blood drop. I even gave it a second or so more on screen, but it's too fast. Might need to make it swell faster I'll call you about this so we can coordinate the perfect timing.

Also I almost finished editing CAST INTERVIEW # 2 so I think it will be launched on the net shortly :thumbup:

Note: Behind the scene moment - what you guys didn't get to see: Me, last night, sitting in front of my PC, all alone with my dog, at ungodly hours, jumping up and down on my seat, litterally bouncing off the walls from sheer EXCITEMENT, watching the scene with the latest additions of the CGI shot and the crash sounds and a couple more edits I added yesterday... And the great scoring under it... My God each week, this scene become a bit more exciting... Many more shots to work on but I think it is going to be the coolest scene in the film!

It really looks like a FEATURE FILM...

Wow.

Wow.

And re-wow.

For you who just started to follow the thread, this was CAST INTERVIEW #1: It's really cool, lots of behind the scene info and unseen snipits of my film.

 

[Deuceofspades]

EXCITING MOMENT:

Imdb just approved our listing!!! Weeeheee I guess it's now official

WE HAVE A MOVIE !!!!!

I feel sooooooooooo important now LOL (really? No, not really)... NO, but seriously, it's cool though. I was worried they would turn us down cause we are no budget and still in production, but with all the press and links, and upcoming bookings for the film, we had enough to justify our existence .

On a down note, they messed up the listing info... And updating it seems like a long, complicated, protracted process (RATS).

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Also: Played the race scene to my P.A last night and he was amazed at how good the blood on the hood looks.

Good job Chris!!!

:thumbup:

 

[Deuceofspades]

MY WORK FLOW AND MXF FILE ORGANIZATION SYSTEM (tips tips tips tips)


Mxf files were initially very intimidating to me and I was worried I would never figure out where is what. The randsom numbers of files (impossible to remember or rename easily) plus their great number (thousands of them) was enough to make me want to cry for my mommy LOL.

So this is how I organized myself and I must say this turned out to be the PER-FECT system for me. EXTRA simple and deadly efficient.

As you may know, I use Vegas Pro 8b (I am on a PC) and HVX200 mxf files (with raylight plug in - without which vegas can't read mxf files).

I have created a folder for each scene and a vegas project for each scene/folder.

Each scene is edited as a stand alone.

I then started a "DEUCE OF SPADES" project, in which I edit the whole film, importing each scene project into the timeline. Everything is working smoothly. No bugs, no hang ups, real time editing and viewing in full high def mode.

I am able to view on full monitor mode, raylight blue mode, real time, for a "real movie, where's the popcorn" feel.

Sometimes I have 3 vegas open at the same time, and everything is working perfect. I created a vegas project for outtakes that stays minimized and I paste clips into that timeline everytime I find an outtake (blooper) in a vegas project I am editing. Convenient.

The mxf files are a pleasure to work with. It is SOOO easy I never want to go back to tape (ever). The trick is knowing how to organize yourself from DAY ONE, otherwise you will be in HELL. Cause you know you can't see them and their names make NO SENSE WHAT SO EVER to anyone mortal... And I hear that even the Gods are confused with them on occasion ,,,

So I thought I'd share here how I am organizing my mxf files to make it easy and functional and this system is working wonderfully well. It is also super simple and requires no software.

So here it is:


1. I film, using 2 P2 cards. one 16G and one 32G

2. no more need to dowload footage in the middle of a shoot. Sweet...

3. Come home download footage into PC.

4. Created a folder on hard drive named DEUCE OF SPADES

5. inside folder created a subfolder for each scene (SCENE 1, SCENE2, etc..)

6. Say for ex I am filming Scene 1. When downloading footage filmed I place the CONTENT folder and the LAST CLIP file inside the SCENE1 folder.

7. Open Vegas, open the VIDEO folder inside CONTENT folder inside SCENE1 folder and import all the clips with Raylight into project.

8. Paste all of them in timeline, takes 1 sec. Save this project inside the same SCENE1 folder as "scene1 contents" this way I can see at a glance what I had filmed that day.

8. I then take a few screengrabs and save them as images in that same SCENE1 folder. This is a MUST (you'll see why in a second)

Now when I look at my DEUCE OF SPADES folder and open it [in thumbnail view mode], I see my SCENE folders as large thumbnails and tiny pictures of the footage inside each folder , which helps me identify instantly the scenes (hey I have about 90 scenes in my feature film, can't expect me to remember them all by Scene numbers only)

Then I go edit, using the Scene1 contents project as a starting point and saving edits as "scene1 edit1 / edit2 etc..." as many times as I make editing changes. TIP: Save often. I have learn (the hard way) that the minute you forget to save, the software will lock up and crash (ouch) and you lose an hour wort of work :crybaby: (RATS!!)

Done deal. Everything is organized nicely and I don't worry about any other applications or anything, P2 viewer or anything else for that matter.

I do one last thing: Back everything up onto another drive, just in case. So I have a clone of each of my terrabytes drives. I now use SynToy to backup / synch. It is a free software and it works GREAT cause it will update only what I changed. Works great - I recommedn it. Note that currently my project is taking 3 terrabytes drives (plus three more as clones - stored at work- cause you never know)

This simple approach is working mighty nicely for me and I know where everything is and what everything is.

Here is a screen grab so you can visualize, showing my short THE PARK BENCH in this case - same system.

I hope this info proves helpful to some of you. Try this system, you'll love it!

 

[Nathyn]

Your film does have a nice look for what I've seen.

-Nate

 

[Ted Spencer]

Does Vegas support OMF sound file export yet? I know Adam C (re: Corrado) had a real nightmare with that when he wanted to hire someone to do post sound in Pro Tools and he couldn't get the audio timeline to export (with OMF being the most commonly accepted way). It ended up taking him a huge number of hours to work around it, and he was kicking himself down the block big-time later on for that...

 

[Deuceofspades]

Does Vegas support OMF sound file export yet? I know Adam C (re: Corrado) had a real nightmare with that when he wanted to hire someone to do post sound in Pro Tools and he couldn't get the audio timeline to export (with OMF being the most commonly accepted way). It ended up taking him a huge number of hours to work around it, and he was kicking himself down the block big-time later on for that...

Not sure... But David, in the Vegas board here, would be able to tell you.

Spending the day today cleaning up files, consolidating data, backin up, uploading the SECOND INTERVIEW (weeeheee - I think it came out really good). Lots of bits and pieces of the film, including one really really cool cigarette shot.


WHICH BRINGS A QUESTION UP; want to pick you guys brains on this:

I don't smoke. I actually really hate cigarettes and what they do to people. Smoking is not something I want to glorify or promote. However, in the 50's people smoked like chimney so I have one character (TOMMY) who is a chain smoker and he smokes throughout the film. Cigarette smoke does make for cool visual effects, I must admit.

I have this one gorgeous shot of him lighting up a cigarette at night (you'll see it in the interview) and it's so cool looking it would almost make you feel like smoking LOL.

I worry people might think I am promoting smoking (especially since I am against it)

what's you guys take on this? Should I post a warning / disclaimer somewhere stating I do not support smoking and if so WHERE and HOW to word it?

Or should I just not worry about it...

 

[zeke]

Not sure... But David, in the Vegas board here, would be able to tell you.

Spending the day today cleaning up files, consolidating data, backin up, uploading the SECOND INTERVIEW (weeeheee - I think it came out really good). Lots of bits and pieces of the film, including one really really cool cigarette shot.


WHICH BRINGS A QUESTION UP; want to pick you guys brains on this:

I don't smoke. I actually really hate cigarettes and what they do to people. Smoking is not something I want to glorify or promote. However, in the 50's people smoked like chimney so I have one character (TOMMY) who is a chain smoker and he smokes throughout the film. Cigarette smoke does make for cool visual effects, I must admit.

I have this one gorgeous shot of him lighting up a cigarette at night (you'll see it in the interview) and it's so cool looking it would almost make you feel like smoking LOL.

I worry people might think I am promoting smoking (especially since I am against it)

what's you guys take on this? Should I post a warning / disclaimer somewhere stating I do not support smoking and if so WHERE and HOW to word it?

Or should I just not worry about it...

If it's only in a couple of scenes, don't worry about it. Most people know about how smoking was viewed back then.

btw, you should get familiar with the media manager in Vegas, you already have 90% of the battle won with how you organize. Check out the chapter in the user manual, it's really pretty cool how you can organize and categorize your source material, plus put it on a shared network drive for others to open.

as for Audio, Vegas supports AIFF (Apple Audio) see if they give you that format.

Joe C.

 

[visugeek]

I have this one gorgeous shot of him lighting up a cigarette at night (you'll see it in the interview) and it's so cool looking it would almost make you feel like smoking LOL.

I worry people might think I am promoting smoking (especially since I am against it)

what's you guys take on this? Should I post a warning / disclaimer somewhere stating I do not support smoking and if so WHERE and HOW to word it?

Or should I just not worry about it...

I think you are in a unique position with this one. The smoking takes place in flashbacks to the 1950's sequences, so If Tommy's character is in the flash forwards, he could be dealing with lung cancer or have died from it. It would not have to be focused on too heavily, but mentioned if mentioned in passing or there was a scene with him you could get that across. It may be a bit grim but it is a reality and would definitly be a responsible approach.

Cheers!

Chris

 

[puredrifting]

I don't smoke, but this political correctness about showing smoking in movies has run amok. Watch one episode of Mad Men, almost every character chain smokes through every episode and they don't worry about it.

If there is one thing I depsise, it is revisionist history. Yes, smoking=bad. Did people smoke a lot during every year since our country was founded up until about twenty years ago? Yes, definitely. If I ever made a period film, I would have people puffing away like crazy because that's how it was. I was a kid in the 60s and early 70s and every one of my friends parents smoked and my parents smoked. It's the way it was.

Dan

 

[ESTEBEVERDE]

I think you are in a unique position with this one. The smoking takes place in flashbacks to the 1950's sequences, so If Tommy's character is in the flash forwards, he could be dealing with lung cancer or have died from it. It would not have to be focused on too heavily, but mentioned if mentioned in passing or there was a scene with him you could get that across. It may be a bit grim but it is a reality and would definitly be a responsible approach.

Cheers!

Chris

I vote for this if it can be pulled off gracefully.

I've never smoked even one puff but I don't personally know anyone of that generation that didn't smoke.

Sure there were many who didn't but there were many man y more who did.

I say keep the shot.

 

[Deuceofspades]

I vote for this if it can be pulled off gracefully.

I've never smoked even one puff but I don't personally know anyone of that generation that didn't smoke.

Sure there were many who didn't but there were many man y more who did.

I say keep the shot.

Oh keeping the shot was never in question. i LOVE that shot (ans all of Tommy's shots for that matter, like I said the smoke and lighter look and sound great - nie sound teh zippo lighter makes when you open and close it).

 

[Deuceofspades]

I think you are in a unique position with this one. The smoking takes place in flashbacks to the 1950's sequences, so If Tommy's character is in the flash forwards, he could be dealing with lung cancer or have died from it. It would not have to be focused on too heavily, but mentioned if mentioned in passing or there was a scene with him you could get that across. It may be a bit grim but it is a reality and would definitly be a responsible approach.

Cheers!

Chris

Funny you should mention that because I had that same idea and conversation with Jerry a couple months ago. But then I worried it really would bum the audience out because you get to really like TOMMY (despite his many short comings). I am still considering this, especially since in the film you get to see OLD Tommy before you get to ever see young Tommy - and the very first shot of him in the fifties is his hands lighting up a cigarette... So that would really bring it home. Cause then the audience would realize that THAT'S why he is having lung cancer. I guess as long as it is mentionned "in passing" and in a very settle way it could work.

 

[visugeek]

I have to agree with puredrifting, my mom smoked like a chimney, and if you live outside of CA, people still do. It's a very recent and local thing that people don't smoke. I spent 2004-2005 in London and I was the only person in the bars, restaurants, etc that didn't smoke. I have family in Seattle, and friends in Vegas, and people still smoke, everywhere. If it's not too heavy handed, I think it can be more effective.

: )

 

[Ted Spencer]

Vegas supports AIFF (Apple Audio) see if they give you that format.

Joe C.

AIFF is a digital audio file standard, like WAV or SDII (and it has nothing to do with Apple - AIFF stands for Audio Interchange File Format). Among other things, it's the native format for audio CDs. OMF is a DAW (digital audio workstation) file interchange program, which is something altogether different.

OMF (Open Media Framework) enables the entire audio timeline of one program (like Final Cut Pro or Avid) to be transported to another program (like Pro Tools or Logic), and vice-versa. All the audio segments (aka "clips" in FCP, or "regions" in PT) are carried over, including all crossfades and names, and their precise location and duration in the timeline at the designated frame rate (any plugins/filters, mixer settings or effects are not included though, and volume "keyframe" information is usually minimal). It also allows complete editing flexibility, so audio clips can be individually moved in time, or re-trimmed longer or shorter, just like in the original NLE. What this means, is that OMF will get you directly, in seconds, from a very limited audio environment like FCP to a state of the art post/mixing environment like Pro Tools.

What Adam found on "Corrado" was that when he wanted to escape from Vegas's presumably similarly limited audio world (I don't know Vegas, so I don't know just how limited it is), he...couldn't. He evidently tried everything imaginable to do so, but ultimately ended up spending about a week manually exporting the audio, presumably file by file, so it could be worked on in PT. The basic problem was that while Vegas could export via aaf (which is similar to OMF), it could only do so with mono files, and the HVX natively generates stereo files. So it was a no-go, to which the only solution was enormously labor intensive - a week versus a minute...

My concern for Faith is that she might find herself in the same boat after she's invested hundreds of hours editing. If it's not too late to switch to an OMF-compliant NLE (like FCP or Avid), she'll be good to go at the end when she wants that pro-level audio post mix. If she stays in Vegas, and she wants a high quality post mix, she will apparently face the same massive "gotcha" that Adam did. Pardon the silly analogy, but exporting via OMF is about as easy as throwing a thousand playing cards on the floor. Doing it the other way is like having to sort them all back into decks again.

It will be painful to change NLE's mid-stream too, so I suupose at this point it's about taking your pain now versus taking your pain later. And if Faith's lucky, Sony will add OMF support in an upgrade before she's done.

Sorry to be the bearer of such (potentially) bad news...

 

[zeke]

OK Ted I see what you mean.
But why not stay in Vegas or add/use Acid Pro?
I'm not sure what limitations Corrado ran into.
Vegas isn't Pro Tools, but it supports surround mixing, punch in recording, Acid loops, VST plug-ins, imports Broadcast Wave, unlimited audio tracks.

Same for Acid Pro 7. Vegas is currently multitrack only I think. Acid Pro is Multi Track and Multi Channel. With access to high quality 32bit VST based instruments and effects, should be able to do quite a lot. Both use the same Media Manger so resources can be shared between programs. Both support all standard timecode options. Both can work with either mov or avi based files if needed.

I understand your concern, but there is quite a bit of depth to Vegas and Acid Pro that many are not aware of.

For her next project it might be wise to take stock and re-examine her options though, just like I am at the moment (looking seriously at Avid Media Composter for my first feature, but will use Acid Pro for much of the advanced audio work).

Here is a recent review of Acid Pro 7

http://www.postmagazine.com/ME2/dir...91&tier=4&id=BBEFD40DCDD94A148FBEC4596F430F54

 

[Deuceofspades]

Cool cool. Good info to meditate upon. I am hoping to have my friend Patrick Ciccone do the final mix / mastering cause he is top pro and offered to help (if time allows). I know he works in large fil mixing studios, so not sure what they use over there and probably should start enquiring

I am not too worried though, I am sure it will all work out. To quote JOHNNY CALLAWAY himself (my favorite quote now a day):

"I'll be just fine"

I quote him, especially when I start to freak out HA! And in the end, he seems to always be right.

That said, please do continue giving me pointers, sharing info, because as I like to always say: "I have NO IDEA what I'm doing... I'm just DOING IT, somehow..."

:beer:

I am enjoying Vegas immensely so no plans to switch on this feature. No money to switch eother so the deicision is easy to make LOL...

Let's see hwo this first film goes... And then I'll assess the next film NLE (if next film there is - cause for all I know, I may not survive this one LOL)

 

[Deuceofspades]

WEHEEEEEEEEEEEEE Here it is!

My latest brew: The SECOND special Feature Intervew. Lots of neat shots and never seen before snipit of my film and you also get to meet actor JORDAN WARREN (that kid has so much talent, it's mind boggling)

 

[pdsage10]

Pardon the silly analogy, but exporting via OMF is about as easy as throwing a thousand playing cards on the floor. Doing it the other way is like having to sort them all back into decks again.

This analogy is dead on. Even when you do export OMF out of Avid or FCP, you still are going to have a fun time organizing them in ProTools. Sometimes fades you have added transfer correctly, sometimes they dont. Also, sometimes clips end up in the entirely wrong slice in ProTools. So, start now cause if you have tons of clips and in turn tons of slices, then your organization is gonna take some time.

Also, the project is looking great so far.

 

[Deuceofspades]

Thank you

 

[Ted Spencer]

Cool cool. Good info to meditate upon. I am hoping to have my friend Patrick Ciccone do the final mix / mastering cause he is top pro and offered to help (if time allows). I know he works in large fil mixing studios, so not sure what they use over there...

If the above description is accurate (top pro/large film mixing studio), then it's 99.9% certain that they're using Pro Tools. And unfortunately you will almost certainly have the same issues getting your soundtrack there that Adam did.

Sorry...

I would strongly recommend talking to Patrick asap about the absence of any OMF export capability in Vegas. At the very least, you may be able to start a workflow adjustment now that will cut down on some of the difficulties later. It might be a lot less painful than a week of hell at the end.

I hope all of this is helpful!