a laundromat, headphones, and a seamingly reocurring event ="Trial and Error"

[Undisputed Truth]

a laundromat, headphones, and a seamingly reocurring event ="Trial and Error"

a 7ish minute, few words needed short for a school project.
CRITIQUE IT TILL I DON'T LIKE IT ANYMORE, PLEASEY PLEASELOL. THE GOOD AND THE BAD. It got rejected from NFFTY so theres gotta be some negatives.

Shot on my lovely stock dvx in 24pa, half in camera and half magic bullet coloring
The Youtube HQ is pretty solid because i exported 1080x720 with Instant HD plugin.

I think thats all, if you have any questions just give me an ask and i will give you an answer. (yes that was bad english, i just thought it sounded hip)


Once again i would love to hear what you ladies and gentleman have to say
good and BAD, and THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO WATCH IT

Now go pick some bones and toss a cent or two.:dankk2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3aNr5DQ0i0


"An unknown, strange, dark, perplexing young man finds his way to a laundromat. He is accompanied by a bag of solid colored clothes, large headphones, a blank concealing look, and a striped long sleeved t-shirt. With a dark rhythmic tone pushing through his headphones he becomes increasingly unaware of his surroundings. Curious and easily manipulated, the mysterious young man finds himself with his headphones off and vulnerable to what seems to be a reoccurring event."

Thank you

 

[blackdogs377]

needs to be 1280x720

I liked the color grading and stuff, but i thought that the film was way too dark in general.

 

[NoNoob]

Nothing to be apologetic about, even if a bit disingenuous.

I also looked at some of your other stuff, while I was at it.

Top on my list of 'critique'- don't change anything.
Keep going the way you are.
You've got a good eye and seem to be unafraid to push the limits, to a good end.
And that's great.

As far as the piece goes- I think I get it (at least, I think I think I do).
Wish her audio was better- it's hard to hear her (either on the tape or in the last scene).
The only lines of dialog in a piece like that are pivotal to making the point of the work.
Thereby, they need to be emphasized and featured.

You do a fine job of slowly introducing us (the viewer) to the 'world' you're depicting.
I'd say a dramatic point in the pacing would have been (for me) at the pinball game.
Build frenzy there, zap- power goes out, lead character starts to move quicker.
Everything after that point is cut quicker, and TIGHT.

He frenetically (near enough) gets to the recorder, pause, switches it on- ponderous moment of disbelief, then the out of control fit he has.

Pace is all about cutting to the rhythm. Or, making rhythm.
You can also pull it off by controlling motion before the camera, and with the camera.
You do a damn fine job of challenging the viewer by dramatic change in point of view- but don't be afraid to have some motion (camera movement) in there too.
It's perfectly alright to sweep and wipe with camera movement- especially in charged, energetic scenes.

Guy is flipping out- er, panic attacks.
We're watching, unfazed, from a distance.
No harm jerking the camera around, as if from his panicked point of view.
It'd add to the climax, certainly.

I don't understand the part about being 'rejected' from "NFFTY".

 

[Undisputed Truth]

needs to be 1280x720

Was that an attempt to make me shoot 16;9? Lol
I shot 4:3 without letterbox at the time, but now i prefer 16:9
I like that wider and tighter view of field.

I liked the color grading and stuff, but i thought that the film was way too dark in general.

Thank you, i tried to make the color vary dark and contrasty and i think it fits the mood well.

In general, it is a little more dark than i had previously intended, but i was shooting for a really dark short, i think i achieved it but, may have overshot.

Thanks again.

 

[Undisputed Truth]

Thanks a bunch for your time NoNoob, i really appreciate it.
Just a quick couple questions and comments.

Nothing to be apologetic about, even if a bit disingenuous.

By disingenuous, you mean insecure? That word has a collection of meanings. The truth.... i guess i am proud of my work, im just trying to find the negatives to improve on.

I also looked at some of your other stuff, while I was at it.

Top on my list of 'critique'- don't change anything.
Keep going the way you are.
You've got a good eye and seem to be unafraid to push the limits, to a good end.
And that's great.

Thank you, its nice to be encouraged, especially cause i have insecure tendencies. Just kidding. I will keep on keepin on.

As far as the piece goes- I think I get it (at least, I think I think I do).
Wish her audio was better- it's hard to hear her (either on the tape or in the last scene).
The only lines of dialog in a piece like that are pivotal to making the point of the work.
Thereby, they need to be emphasized and featured.

For the audio issue, i agree.
I like the audio being hard to hear through the tape recorder.
But when she says it in person it could be improved on.
The original audio from the girl is good audio but i overlayed a tumbleing dryer noise to make it more realisitic and fit with the other parts. So i can lower/take out the dryer noise and it should be fairly clean.

You do a fine job of slowly introducing us (the viewer) to the 'world' you're depicting.
I'd say a dramatic point in the pacing would have been (for me) at the pinball game.
Build frenzy there, zap- power goes out, lead character starts to move quicker.
Everything after that point is cut quicker, and TIGHT.

Was there the right amount of Frenzy or would you say more??
I was really trying to make the short ramp up nice and slowly then, bam he goes crazy.
I agree with the quicker paceing. The shots after the pinball machine are a bit quicker, but are not quick enough.
The shots are also a little tighter and more zoomed in.
Are you saying i should have made it even tighter, cause i thought it was pretty tight after the pinball machine.

Pace is all about cutting to the rhythm. Or, making rhythm.

Do you mean to the music or the storyline(before middle end)?

You can also pull it off by controlling motion before the camera, and with the camera.
You do a damn fine job of challenging the viewer by dramatic change in point of view- but don't be afraid to have some motion (camera movement) in there too.
It's perfectly alright to sweep and wipe with camera movement- especially in charged, energetic scenes.

By Point of view are you referring to the crazy jumpy povs or dramatic change in camera angles or both?

Im surprised, i thought i kept the camera in good motion. The follow shot of the introduction of the girl walking through the laundromat was "motionfull"..... i thought. I shot the short almost entirely handheld and tried to refrain from a locked off tripod. I was focusing on giving the camera movement and life. When the guy has his fit, the camera is fairly still for the majority, but the later shots i tried to move the camera around more when he seems sick and has dry heaves, (seasick movement i guess). Please elaborate. Are you talking about moving the camera more throughout the scene, because it does move around but stays on one side the majority of the time?

Guy is flipping out- er, panic attacks.
We're watching, unfazed, from a distance.
No harm jerking the camera around, as if from his panicked point of view.
It'd add to the climax, certainly.

I agree, the actor carried me on this one, he did a good job of making the scene intense with his screaming, and alot more movement/shake would have only added to that tension, i did use some dutch angles though, gotta give me a little credit. Next time
O ill just do that in post. Lol. Post production after affects camera shake maybe?

I don't understand the part about being 'rejected' from "NFFTY".

my fault, I should have elaborated, i sent it in to "The National Film Festival for the Talented Youth" but it wasnt accepted


Thank you again for the critique, vary helpful, gives me ideas and makes me think and thats a really really good thing.

 

[NoNoob]

Let's break it down to two main parts- then go from there:

PACE - MOTION

Gauging pace is so easy because the timeline shows it to you.
You, obviously, know that each piece of video laying on the track depicts a portion of time alloted.
The shorter they are, the faster the pacing.
Simple.

Scrinch your timeline down to the point you can see all of your 'movie' from beginning to end.
Generally speaking (and not that one should be bound to this modus) the pieces at the beginning are a bit longer- as they lend themselves to introducing the viewer to the 'story', or let them in easily to the story you are about to tell.
They're called 'set up' or introductory scenes.
Somewhere along the line (reading left to right), action and pace cause the bits and pieces to be shorter duration-- more of them crammed into a shorter length.

I like to label or color my cuts so i can see a graphical representation of the pieces.
RED is always good for action.
Some cutters will mark their bits with key frames- so they can see a representative image of what is within the piece of video.

SO- on your timeline you have a point where switching into high gear would be perfect- the pin ball game.
Sure, we've been introduced to the machine earlier- but now it becomes a progenitor of the climax scene (where it all comes together).
Get some establishing shots, show a little stationary pin ball action, then mercilessly just cut to tiny portions MANY scenes- tighter and tighter until it's almost a blur. Slice and Dice!

Tighter, faster, building to the crescendo that the going BLACK (turned off) provides.
This then could be a prescribed lull, before the real STORM to come- when he flips out.
Just hold that moment of dark silence long enough to make the point, get a breath, then move on to the next build up (which is the grande finale).

**There's a setting on the 100's you can assign to a user button- I think it's 1/4 or something- it makes for blurs because the shutter is held open for a longer time. Locked down, nothing moving in front of the camera- it's great for pulling a reasonable amount of detail out of a dark scene.
However, moving the camera or having things move before the lens in that setting- you get a streaking from frame to frame. Experiment with that (as a suggestion only).

If everything you did in your shots in the beginning was a pretty straight up and passive observation of the story line, then -at the point you break the thing into a frenetic, nearly abstract dissociative flurry- you can afford to bend it even further with an artistic blur.
Just a taste at the beginning of the pin ball scene- maybe five or six of those blur effects.

Save it for the one that counts- the guy flipping out.
Because, that's where you're trying to get- to that climax.
That's when you pull out the stops, tighter shots (closeups) [you want to see inside his nostrils], shorter cuts (tight, tight, tight- into the second or less realm), flip from watching him to being him- the POV hurls the viewer into the thing (whether they want to or not), mix frames awash with color and blur---- all the time getting shorter and tighter- building to the explosive (by silence) finale.
BOOM. You're there (they're there), this is what i am trying to say. End of story.

NLE is non-destructive. You don't lose anything by trying new ways to see a piece.
Use new 'sequence' to make different versions of a scene (name them- I always name the crappy ones 'John Woo'- and then toss them in the toilet).
It's a ritual.

Learn about swipes and wipes- always obtain them when on a shoot.
They'll save your ass someday.
*******************
on to your specific questions:

• Yes, you are insincere. But that's okay.
• You have two lines of dialog in the piece- thereby, they are very important. I'm not counting the screaming rants- that isn't really dialog, right?
So, why step on the only two lines in the thing? Why let one of them go to nothing (the one she is seen speaking), when it really ties the piece together?
I do understand layering in the background to set room tone- but take that bit down a couple db, and boost the spoken word part so that it's clear.
The dern tape recorder is purposely placed into the story for a reason- then you make it so what's on it can't be heard? what's the sense? (rhetorical- don't answer).
• answered the ones on pace, frenzy, and motion- okay?

You could start by putting your best Jack the Ripper face on and cut about two minutes out of the piece- but try to maintain your shot sequence.
I didn't count, but let's say there are 160 shots in the thing, and it's seven minutes long.
If you cut two minutes out, and STILL HAVE 160 shots---- it's faster paced.
Start FAT at the beginning- you want to carefully pull the viewers into the story, so be easy on them----- then slice and dice your way up to the climax, and end with your outro (letting them breathe again).

It's all about taking their breath away- right?

Hope this is somewhat helpful in your journey.

 

[Joshua Provost]

I always love a laundromat short. I've made a couple of them myself. Never had as visually interesting a laundromat, though. Love the location.

Interesting film, nice disconcerting tone to it. Vaugely Primer-esque. No time for critique right now, but it was interesting to watch.

 

[Undisputed Truth]

WOW! No more questions for me. That was more than a great explanation.
Your last reply got me to thinking. Im almost positive i got what your saying now thanks for making it clear. im pretty happy with everything except for the pacing at the end. Its not horrible but, like you said, its not quit breathtaking

When i was editing this short i considered making the pinball machine part a little more chaotic. I went against that decision because i felt i should hold off until the "panic attack". What you said makes a lot of sense with the build up(pinball machine) then blackout(take a breathe) then quicker motion/build until BAM the final climax. Im gonna try and rework the scene.

Its funny, i said critique it until i dont like it. Not literally but now i see things, mainly just in editing and paceing that need some fixins and tweaks. But dont get me wrong im still really proud of it.

I have this idea in my head where i think all the shots have to line up with the previous motion, i know it doesnt have to, but i always seem to do so. So its weird for me to try and cut a little faster cause i feel the shots wont line up as well, but i guess it just adds to the tension and i need to eliminate my habit

Im content with everything up until the pinball machine. Although there are some shots that can be shortened i think for the majority i will keep that untouched. Now, as for the pinball machine and later events, i think i will play around and see if i can squeeze out a little more tension. Now that i think about it, i wish i had a bunch of close up shots of the actor going crazy and just jump back and forth between them and the wideshots plus a couple pov's tossed in there for good measure.

Adding blurs is usually something i love to do. The lack there of disappoints me a bit, but that will probably be changed.
I used all blurs and mirrored/layered images for this music video im not sure if you saw it in my other videos or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDFEG57codA


Thanks for the tip with the shutter speed, ive messed around with it in the past, but have yet to incorporate it into one of my films.

Im still in high school so about 90% of my knowledge of film is self taught and inquired from online. Its a huge help when someone takes time to share there knowledge with me. I have to thank you for taking your time to teach someone you dont even know. I respect that alot and if you are ever in central pennsylvania and need anything, give me a holler, id be more than glad to return the favor.

Thanks a bunch,
Andrew