Red Ruination Blue - a production blog

Capt.Video said:
though I'm still trying to figure out how you managed to spend 35K on a short you already had film (at least I'm assuming you had the raw stock since you said you got it out of your garage) and a camera package for, even with post unless you went buy the book and hired locations, paid actors, had more than a few shooting days ect. or is that , like Corrado, this "listed' price. Just curious.
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That first short was basically a small version of Corrado. I had a decent size crew - about 12-14 people. I had to rent a grip truck, camera package, and buy film. We rented two locations, a small house and a general store exterior. It was done under a SAG contract. It could have been done cheaper on something like an HVX and a skeleton crew for sure.
 
Well, that'll do it. I doubt with the production expenses you had, it would have saved you all that much shooting video and I personally am with you on the preference towards film in general though I must say, I have seen (and actually shot) some beautiful stuff on digital. Still, given a choice, for most things, I perfer the look of film.

That is the one things I love about these commiecam MOS cameras (the Kinor 35PII and the Konvas-1) is it really makes short ends viable for production so low end can be done with them more readily. Once the mags are loaded, you literally just slap 'em into the camera and start rockin'. Of course, if I'm shooting sync, the Kinor 35C Rotovision has to be threaded and though I have several 400 ft mags for it, I prefer shooting 1000 ft loads if I use that camera. It shoots at 32dbs so in small rooms, it should be barneyed, but the Russians used to ADR everything back in the day so they didn't care too much.

Outside though, you shouldn't have that much of an issue with camera noise on pretty much any sound camera I would imagine. Is that Arri BL3 a PL mount camera? if so, at 2mil, you may be able to rent a newer, better Arri for the interior stuff and just rent the lens package and use the BL for the exterior shots rather than going with a Panavision, which I would imagine should be a considerable savings for the camera department that you could put else ware. Get your DP a nice set of Hawk V-series and it will look gorgeous. Here's a neat comparison of various anamorphics with the pros and cons:

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=4690

I was actually surprised how well my Lomos stacked up against more modern lenses. I hope it will help you make a decision with regards as to what lenses to use.

If you shoot old school and just trust in your DP rather than sitting behind the monitor (I believe you said this BL3 didn't have a video tap on it), you should actually be able to set up more quickly and therefore shoot more pages per day (of course you could always have a tap installed relatively inexpensively by Bruce at Aranda or another reputable company for maybe 2 to 4 grand which would solve any misgivings you might have about not having video access to the image while on set).

This is just my way of thinking, of course you'll do it your way as I would, but it is something to think about.
 
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filmman said:
I can get you the film at a great price. Email me: vic@felliniesque.com
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Thanks, I'll keep the link. I'll be looking a quite a lot of film (7 -10 to 1 shooting ratio on a 90 minute feature so around say 90K ft.) stored properly of course and that will pass a snip test at .05 cents a foot of mostly 5279 OR if ya got it yet, 5260, a lot in short ends, but I will want some long ends and full 1000ft rolls. Let me know and when we get a bit closer, I'll get you a complete list and we'll see if we can do any business. Thanks-Steve :cool:
 
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Anamorphic seems like a bit of a pain in the ass quite honestly. From reading this comparison, you need 4 times the light to get proper focus, and the minimum focus distance is 4' and possibly 7'.
This means that you are going to take longer to setup, spend more money on grip and lighting, and be more limited in your shot selection, particulatly close ups. Even with a 2+ mil budget, this is going to put a strain on a crew that has never shot anamorphic and probably add days to the schedule.
I know you get a bit more resolution to start with, but once it's scanned I don't know how much better the image will look versus 3 or 2 perf.

It's worth testing, but I think you may not be getting that much more bang for the buck at this stage.

Chris
 
Well, I suppose it could be a bit more involved. Anamorphics work best at a stop of f4 to f5.6 so yes because of the wider aspect ratio, the DoF seems shallower so you need more light to increase your DoF. My Lomos will open up to f2.8 but have an effective stop of f3.3. I think though, it's all in prepro. If you know you're gonna need more light, you are ready for that. I plan on rating my stock at 320 or 400 ASA and pushing it 1 stop so we won't use as much light as you might imagine, true this will increase grain, saturation and contrast but on this project, I was going for a stylized look anyway so that just what I want. We're also planning an playing with negative space which is one of the major reasons I went with anamorphic that and the beauty of the image as well as the instances of the elongation in the bokeh which also helps with the stylized look. We're planning on avoiding a DI if possible and going an all film route. I like the aspect ratio, but techniscope just does not look like anamorphic. For me, the "pain in the ass"minor inconveniences are worth the trade off for better image quality and aesthetic ambiance. Of coarse, you have your opinion and I have mine, and I do respect your position. Thanks for the input.
 
I see the aesthetic value in what you are saying, you have a specific look and feel that you are going for, that's great. There are definitely projects that can benefit from the specific qualities of anamorphic. I just thought I'd mention the negatives that were most apparent to me after reading your link. going from 3-perf to anamorphic for Adam's shoot is going to change his budget numbers a bit.
Keeping things all 35 on your project will be an interesting challenge. Nothing like cutting real film and dealing with syncing magtrack. I've got a buddy who is a negative cutter who could use some work when the time comes. He's been doing it for 15 years, but things have slowed down a bit with Digital taking over.

Good luck with your show! : )

Chris
 
Anamorphic does of course require more light than other formats, but in the context of a decent size production, with a large crew and a couple ten ton trucks, the extra light is not that big of a deal.

It certainly does preclude smaller productions from doing it, though. You could never do it sub 1 Million, IMHO.
 
visugeek said:
I see the aesthetic value in what you are saying, you have a specific look and feel that you are going for, that's great. There are definitely projects that can benefit from the specific qualities of anamorphic. I just thought I'd mention the negatives that were most apparent to me after reading your link. going from 3-perf to anamorphic for Adam's shoot is going to change his budget numbers a bit.
Keeping things all 35 on your project will be an interesting challenge. Nothing like cutting real film and dealing with syncing magtrack. I've got a buddy who is a negative cutter who could use some work when the time comes. He's been doing it for 15 years, but things have slowed down a bit with Digital taking over.

Good luck with your show! : )

Chris
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Hey, great! once we get closer, I'd love to talk to him. I did buy a thinline splicer specifically for cutting 'scope, but with that much experience, your guy would be perfect for the negative work. I'm set up to do "all film", we've got a couple of KEMs one of which is 'scope ( the other is widescreen). I still want to pick up a Moviola (it's easier to sync on a Moviola than a flatbed) and a couple of small items (I REALLY want a Picsync but wish in one hand......:banned:in the other. :grin:) I also picked up a Magnasync and an MTM for recording to mag tracks so once they're set up, we should be able to do a lot of this in-house. I also bought a processing machine w/ the sound track module so eventually I want to be able to do everything in house from concept to release print. We picked up a Domino 4x4 to digitize film as well (not the fastest unit but it will save one Hell of a lot on transfers) so we're also looking at more modern techniques as well for other projects. We got a bunch of junk around here we plan to put to good use, an areal optical printer, a standard optical printer, , dallies projector....ect. See, I live in El Paso, so we have no facilities here and I was sorta forced to create them. I shopped around, bided my time and got the stuff at a very good price so it wasn't that much of a drain on our resources. We're currently looking for a good sized warehouse to convert into a studio. I've got a building now but It's not conducive to film making so we really need a better place.
 
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taormina said:
Anamorphic does of course require more light than other formats, but in the context of a decent size production, with a large crew and a couple ten ton trucks, the extra light is not that big of a deal.

It certainly does preclude smaller productions from doing it, though. You could never do it sub 1 Million, IMHO.
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And I have the GREATEST respect for your HO and in LA you are ABSOLUTELY correct, 1 mil would probably be a STARTING figure and go up from there but I've got a few aces up my sleeve most people don't have, that I'm hoping will make this possible for far less a mil. First of all, although we don't have 2 ten tons, I've got access to a 10 ton and an 8 ton outfitted to a 10 ton. We'll be shooting in the deserts of New Mexico at night for the most part which is less than 10 miles from me (in fact I MAY move to NM because I can get a warehouse there much cheaper than here).

My friend Mel Kakuewa also lives here (he's the guy with all the lighting equipment and grip trucks) and he also has a HUGH genny on a tandem axle heavy duty trailer along with 6 4-36 Dinos which, once we set them up on some Condors, should light that desert landscape up like a Christmas tree, in addition to I don't know how many 9 light Maxis, 15k fresnels, HMIs, every Mole-Richardson ever made, just a TON of stuff. Lightingwise we're covered in spades and I've already gotten a quote from him at a flat rate for an 18 day shoot (we're gonna try and bring it in, in 14 days but as you stated so eloquently in your posts, better to plan for problems than let them catch you un-prepared!) that is MUCH lower than what one might expect to pay in LA. I also plan on hiring a VERY under-rated cinematographer who's work I admire GREATLY and who's preferred format is anamorphic so he is EXCEPTIONALLY qualified and VERY experienced (and his price is GREAT, especially considering the superb quality of his work). This guy KNOWS what he's doing and is an true artist in every sense of the word which should speed things right along.

The story is simple, the cast is small (3 main characters, one star for 1 to 3 days with his scenes to be spred throughout the move and the rest are day players except for 2 minor characters for maybe 4 days at the most. Most of the day players will probably be local hires as the roles are not all that challenging.

I own all the camera department stuff (and location audio equipment) including the anamorphics, a ride-aboard Vinten camera crane an old Fearless Panaram camera dolly (I want to upgrade to a Fisher but this will have to do for now) as well as a PA van, a box truck (looks a lot like your old one but it's yellow no overhang. It will probably be a dedicated camera truck), a large cargo van, a passenger bus and a couple of Pick ups, so transpo is covered. I also have been collecting props for 2 years now and have a LOT of the stuff we need.

We're gonna limit our coverage and with all due respect to your method of working, I am planning on extensively storyboarding so I can effectively limit my coverage when ever possible without concerning myself about not having a shot I need (in other words sticking to the storyboards religiously) much like what Hitchcock did on his films. To MY way on thinking, paper and an artist (especially if that "artist" is me) is one Hell of a lot cheaper than film and a production crew, but in deference to you, it's whatever works for the individual and your method works for you and THAT'S all that counts in the end.

Plus other tricks garnered from Hong Kong cinema, Russian Cinema, Rodger Corman's methods and every other damn thing I've ever learned about how to make a film cheaply (I had to smile when I heard that you read Dov Simen's book, I've got his dvd film school myself and a lot of it did help, but you're right, he is way off on some things) in addition to shooting on resales, recans and long and short ends to save cash.

Also, things in general are very cheap in El Paso and the surrounding area so you can get things done for next to nothing here and with NM film incentives and rebates, which are the best in the country right now (you should look into them, at your level, seriously for RRB) We'd be nuts NOT to film there. Really all we need to pay for is the expendables we have not already bought, cast and crew, craft services, maybe a couple of location fees (but in all honesty, it's not like LA and it's entirely possible we can get them ALL for next to nothing or for free), a few Condors (one of the few pieces of equipment we DON'T own), stock, some incidentals and post. I think we can do it but we'll see.

Say let me ask you a question, what did you budget for post audio on Corrado? I'm figuring in the neighborhood of 15% but I don't know enough about post audio pricing at this point to be confident in that estimate. Thanks-Steve
 
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Capt.Video said:
Say let me ask you a question, what did you budget for post audio on Corrado? I'm figuring in the neighborhood of 15% but I don't know enough about post audio pricing at this point to be confident in that estimate. Thanks-Steve
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Corrado's post audio budget was about $20K, Red Ruination's post audio will be about 35K. These numbers are basically sound editing / mixing to achieve a foleyed 5.1 mix and satisfy the requirements of foreign deliverables.
 
taormina said:
Corrado's post audio budget was about $20K, Red Ruination's post audio will be about 35K. These numbers are basically sound editing / mixing to achieve a foleyed 5.1 mix and satisfy the requirements of foreign deliverables.
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Hey, thanks Adamo. Going by these figures, I'm right in the ballpark with my educated guess of about what they should be for Blood Moon Rising. You're the best-Steve
 
Just PM me when you need him and I'll forward his contact info. It sounds like you really scored on the Equipment, especially the Domino, that was state of the art 8 years ago, I'm sure the quality is fantastic even if the speed is a bit slower than a modern scanner/printer. Congrats!

I'd love to see a sample scan of some footage at some point. Sounds like you've got a full post facility growing out there in El Paso, well done!

Chris

Capt.Video said:
Hey, great! once we get closer, I'd love to talk to him. I did buy a thinline splicer specifically for cutting 'scope, but with that much experience, your guy would be perfect for the negative work. I'm set up to do "all film", we've got a couple of KEMs one of which is 'scope ( the other is widescreen). I still want to pick up a Moviola (it's easier to sync on a Moviola than a flatbed) and a couple of small items (I REALLY want a Picsync but wish in one hand......:banned:in the other. :grin:) I also picked up a Magnasync and an MTM for recording to mag tracks so once they're set up, we should be able to do a lot of this in-house. I also bought a processing machine w/ the sound track module so eventually I want to be able to do everything in house from concept to release print. We picked up a Domino 4x4 to digitize film as well (not the fastest unit but it will save one Hell of a lot on transfers) so we're also looking at more modern techniques as well for other projects. We got a bunch of junk around here we plan to put to good use, an areal optical printer, a standard optical printer, , dallies projector....ect. See, I live in El Paso, so we have no facilities here and I was sorta forced to create them. I shopped around, bided my time and got the stuff at a very good price so it wasn't that much of a drain on our resources. We're currently looking for a good sized warehouse to convert into a studio. I've got a building now but It's not conducive to film making so we really need a better place.
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visugeek said:
Just PM me when you need him and I'll forward his contact info. It sounds like you really scored on the Equipment, especially the Domino, that was state of the art 8 years ago, I'm sure the quality is fantastic even if the speed is a bit slower than a modern scanner/printer. Congrats!

I'd love to see a sample scan of some footage at some point. Sounds like you've got a full post facility growing out there in El Paso, well done!

Chris
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:) Hey thanks man, we're sure working on it. The learning curve on this stuff is pretty steep but I'm starting to hone in on it a bit and am learning more every day. There's a guy in Sweden who ran a lab there and that want's to immigrate to the US. He's expressed an interest in wanting to work with us. If that happens, i'd put him in charge of the lab and we'll be miles ahead. I kind got the idea when I read that back in the day, every studio had it's own lab and FXs department, of course after the break up of the studio system, those kinda disappeared and were reborn in part with Lucas film and ILM. I still need to find a Solitary Cine III film recorder (which is about the level we could afford right now) for the film out. It's also a slow machine but it makes good pictures and that's all that counts, Time we got, money's a little harder to come by.:laugh: It may take a while to find one in good working condition at the price I want to pay but but everything in it's time.

We don't have a warehouse yet so I haven't set up the lab as the place I'm in at the moment is not really what we need and I don't want to set it up twice if I can avoid that so as soon as I find a permeate place for the studio and get the lab set up, I'll definitely post some of the test footage we scan while calibrating the machine.

I don't want to say too much before it happens but we've got some people that MIGHT be willing to fund a small film project, knock on wood, and if that happens, we'll start putting together the post facilities after that project is finished. I'll most likely have the film processed at a commercial lab on this one until we can get a little experience with the equipment and I feel comfortable enough to risk irreplaceable footage:laugh:. That's one of the reasons I was so fascinated with Adamo's threads, they pointed me in the right direction and helped me find a lot of information I will need on the business end to help get Blood Moon Rising financed and then assuming it does OK, a slate of 3 to 5 low budget films (I've got several scripts already written and a TON of treatments for others) ready to go into prepro as soon as we can prove ourselves. IF I'm able to make 3 to 5 films per year, in-house facilities seems like the next logical step.

Even beyond that and looking toward the LONG tern, I have even been researching the idea of buying up a few small theaters around the county, maybe acquiring them one at a time and hiring a manager to actually run them. That would insure theatrical release for all the pictures we make and could be used a launching platform for a tiered release strategy. I've seen several small single screen theaters that can be had for as little as 50k or less, lock stock a barrel. As long as they made a small profit or at the very least, break even, they would fulfill their purpose. What we would do is show other companies movies, which we would probably have to between productions in order to keep the theaters financially viable. It should work out well. But again, we'll see what happens, AGAIN knock on wood :cool:.
 
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taormina said:
My pleasure!
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I appreciate that. If you will indulge me, I did have a couple of other questions, I was wondering if you did a business plan for Corrado? I read in another post, you saying you had done a Investment Memorandum, which would indicate at least to me that you also must have done a full business plan and an executive summery, if so, would you be willing to post that for reference? IIIIII for one would LOVE to see it. (I've seen several in my research and am trying to collate similarities to find the "must haves" in a film specific business plan and related documents. I figure with your recent experience and knowledge of contract and securities law, it would be well worth a read. I would of course expect you would delete any reference to the identities of your actual investors should there be any contained within the documents)

Also, you stated you had borrowed the money to make Corrado, however, if you made up an investment memorandum, that would also indicate that at some point, your financiers became your investors. Was the first 150K you mentioned which initially enable you to hire Mr. Sizimore, a secured loan (your incoming commissions from your yacht sales I'm assuming, being the collateral for the loan) and the rest of the 450K being an LLC investment structure with your now investors? OR was the loan swallowed up as part of the LLC agreement? Just curious. Thanks-Steve :cool:
 
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Capt.Video said:
I appreciate that. If you will indulge me, I did have a couple of other questions, I was wondering if you did a business plan for Corrado? I read in another post, you saying you had done a Investment Memorandum, which would indicate at least to me that you also must have done a full business plan and an executive summery, if so, would you be willing to post that for reference? IIIIII for one would LOVE to see it. (I've seen several in my research and am trying to collate similarities to find the "must haves" in a film specific business plan and related documents. I figure with your recent experience and knowledge of contract and securities law, it would be well worth a read. I would of course expect you would delete any reference to the identities of your actual investors should there be any contained within the documents)
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I didn't do a business plan for Corrado, but I did do an investment memorandum for Red Ruination Blue. The difference between a business plan and an investment memo is pretty slim, but the memo has to be composed under a much stricter set of guidelines and be scrupulously accurate.

I can't share the memo at this time - it's just too valuable of a document as far as what it took to write, but i will tell you this - it may not be used at all. The financing i am looking into right now may not be private party, but I'm keeping my options open. If I don't end up using it, I will post it here, in and edited form.

Capt.Video said:
Also, you stated you had borrowed the money to make Corrado, however, if you made up an investment memorandum, that would also indicate that at some point, your financiers became your investors. Was the first 150K you mentioned which initially enable you to hire Mr. Sizimore, a secured loan (your incoming commissions from your yacht sales I'm assuming, being the collateral for the loan) and the rest of the 450K being an LLC investment structure with your now investors? OR was the loan swallowed up as part of the LLC agreement? Just curious. Thanks-Steve :cool:
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All of Corrado was loans that are now being treated more like investments. There is no paper. There are no securities, no collateral, and nothing is secured on anything other than my good word. No one has ownership of the picture besides me. It's all trust. Corrado was unique like that, but I don't think it will go that way on RRB because the sums are so much larger.
 
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