SCARLET / EPIC swiss army knife camera details announced

No problem Luis.

Good point Adkimery. There will indeed always be something bigger coming. I remember about 5+ years ago Noah saying on 2-Pop that it was inevitable that digital video would surpass IMAX at some point. That seemed like aeons away, but cameras like the Epic, or Phantom 65 shows it's sooner than we realize.

In my work I've shot my share of stuff through the years, some of it's been good, and some of it's been weak. But that was almost always determined by content, effort, and as Adkimery says, good planning. Maybe I'm showing my age, but I guess I just look at something like the Canon HV20, and think what a dream it would have been if something like this had been released ten years ago when we were happy to even have the VX1000 and then the TRV-900 to shoot with. I remember some of the great stuff people did with the VX. Parts of the film Last Broadcast were shot on it. And the HV20 is pretty much obsolete now.
 
To each his own, I guess. Like I said, I can do fantastic stuff with what I have, but I know which route I can take with the gear I have, and I know where I cannot go. My car just does not have the traction and the power to go trough that route. Will this make my film a worse story? Hell no. But will it make a difference in the way it is told? Of Course. I want to have that choice. The choice of presenting my story the way I want it presented. Can I do this with the current sub 10k cameras? No. I can buy adapters, I can buy lights, but I cannot buy setup times, shutter speed freedom,low light capabilities, manual controls, good Signal to noise, Portability and fast efficient handling. The trully revolutionary camera of this generation is the Canon 5d markII. It proves filmmaking on a compact camera with excelent Low Light, resolution and 35mm interchangeable lenses is possible. If Canon came with a manual controls option and 25-24P option for it, i would immediately purchase it.
 
SPZ, I think we are on the same page we are just looking at it from different angles. My comments weren't directed at people that are out there right now making good content w/the currently available tools. My comments were more directed at the type of people that would rather sit on the sidelines and complain about not having 'good enough gear' than go out and find away to make their movie or short or doc or skate video etc.,. Are some ideas not viable w/o certain levels of technology? Sure. Even big name Hollywood directors have kept ideas on the shelf for years until technology, or their budgets, caught up w/their imaginations. But that didn't keep them from making other films in the meantime.

I guess my basic point is not having access to best gear around is no excuse for not going out there and trying to do great things.


-A
 
I can buy lights, but I cannot buy setup times, shutter speed freedom,low light capabilities, manual controls, good Signal to noise, Portability and fast efficient handling.
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Yep - there will always be problems though. People will always demand more, we already know that cameras out there can produce images that for all intended purposes are good enough for the direct to dvd type films that 'most' of us aim to produce. Whatever the technology there will be poeple demanding continued refinement of gear.

They will also be the same that make it out to be a case of necessity also but i think thatI can buy lights, but I cannot buy setup times, shutter speed freedom,low light capabilities, manual controls, good Signal to noise, Portability and fast efficient handling.

The Scarlet (like every marketed promise) once adopted (or any other amaaazing cam) will eventually be absorbed with further improvements demanded of it so it seems pointless.

Of course im speaking from the perspective of an indy filmmaker, but to me it astonishes me what people can produce on all sorts of gear (from a Swiss Sci film shot on the Sony Z1 NightCast) to Five Eyes Across shot on your grannes palmcorder.

The purpose of technological camera evolution should not be to encourage the emulation of higher glossier technically better mega movies - but should be greater creativity. I'm not convinced that we don't necessarily have those options presently. So if some indy guy with $10k says i 'need' all the quality of a mega budgeted movies equipment in the form of a camcorder i just think its unrealistic. - thats not directed at you spz specifically though i make that quote from your post.
 
adkimery said:
SPZ, I think we are on the same page we are just looking at it from different angles. My comments weren't directed at people that are out there right now making good content w/the currently available tools. My comments were more directed at the type of people that would rather sit on the sidelines and complain about not having 'good enough gear' than go out and find away to make their movie or short or doc or skate video etc.,. Are some ideas not viable w/o certain levels of technology? Sure. Even big name Hollywood directors have kept ideas on the shelf for years until technology, or their budgets, caught up w/their imaginations. But that didn't keep them from making other films in the meantime.

I guess my basic point is not having access to best gear around is no excuse for not going out there and trying to do great things.


-A
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Understood, Adkimery. Point taken. I answered to that because I believe the majority of us in this board IS making things with the current gear they have. As filmmakers, we are always looking for the next best thing that can make our films shinnier, better looking, and that can help tell our story better.

However, the truth is, nowadays, we are simply not allowed the creative freedom of cinematography expression that people with the money to fork out 25k+ have- and that is excluding the costs of full crew. This technology is available but intentionally crippled for Indies like me (Canon 5d Mark II). I believe we are on the verge of a turning point towards the full democratization of Audiovisual production. Scarlet seems like (in specs) everything we wanted resolved and improved with the introduction of the 5d Mark 2, and lots more. I only express the frustration of seeing announcement upon announcement of crippled cameras that obviously are like that not because of costs of production (seeing how RED and Canon can put out Excelent video at affordable prices), but because of intentional market fragmentation and profits protection. This makes way for the guys with the money to continue to dominate and dictate the rules. You can bend them, you can be brilliantly creative, but you cannot brake them. Things like imager size, Signal to Noise are criterias required from broadcasters all over the world.

As for you, Lawriejaffa, continue to aim for straight to DVD.
 
As for you, Lawriejaffa, continue to aim for straight to DVD.
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Oh come on don't be a sour grape hehe... was it so utterly cynical sounding that i should say most of the sub 10k$ camera range using producer/directors would be aiming for straight to DvD? I mean that in a general market sense, i mean heck im not exluding how many could get limited or festival showings on cinemas etc. I know Five Eyes Across did for example in that scenario.

I just think its comical to read anyone (not you in particular spz) saying they 'need' a relatively budget camera to be capable of almost limitless technical greatness hehe (presumably then for the cinema screen!!)

Panny and Sonny dissapoint because i need HD Cam SR and varicam magic in a 10k cam... and 'I want it noooow oooh yeah i waant it now!'
 
The actual camera is IMHO the least important parameter in a production these days, and that's coming from someone interested in marketing a new camera.

Some of the sub 10,000 euro camcorders models do have what it takes in most aspects, but this also applies to ultra affordable 1400cc korean 4 door berlinas. There is still room for better or different cars so some people are obviously interested in more than "good enough". For filmmaking, I haven't heard of anyone really talented letting the equipment stop him/her from reaching his/her goals. It's usually the lack of dedication and an infinite amount of excuses.
 
Yep Otis i think thats the sentiment i share albeit i articulate it a little more cheekily lol!

Taht said I think a Drama sounds gorgeous (don't forget mine Santa) - in the good enough stakes we've never had it so good. I was laughing the other day when i watched one of my first films - shot on my gran's palmcorder lol!

It was actually (embarassingly) better than many others shot on the HVX200 - adapter and pimped to heck. Why?

For reasons of story - and oh and others :)

To me any whining about needing certain image sensors gear to be artistic is silly - its like saying you need the latest Ipod to appreciate music - and we know thats not the case! It is just a general enhancement that is by no means a compensation for creativity.

That said - don't forget my Drama Santa!
 
Which one writes a better script?

http://www.mrmartinweb.com/type.htm

Some would argue that the tool always has an effect on the content even when nothing from the tool ends up in the finished work. An annoying typewriter would not write a very good sript. Anyone that has painted knows that quality colors on a palette can inspire an artist just by the way the natural pigments saturate and relate on canvas or even the palette. A camera definitely makes a difference since it actually records the audio and video that ends up in the finished work. We can't wait for the perfect tool though. It's a little counterproductive:)
 
Jim mentions more or less somewhere in that thread that the problem is the projected sales volume the Scarlet would get with the present state of economy. I think they must have estimated 50,000 units at least to make it feasible at the announced body price. I think this announcement is a wise move. It should get Red One sales back on track because many people will stop waiting for Scarlet. Those who can afford Red One at least.

It's a bad time for economy. Panasonic are estimating a 4 billion net loss and cutting thousands of jobs so Red is doing fine in this small market by just having to cut overtime and slow down development.
 
ryan brown said:
Some scarlet footage up if anyone is interested or missed it at REDuser:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=27537&page=4
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The can of worms has been officially opened.

I saw this earlier today. Looks nice. It is exciting to finally see some footage and frame grabs from the Scarlet. Not a lot yet, but it is a start. That is all I'm going to say about it so far since I don't feel like dissecting every last pixel of this footage, which I'm afraid others might start doing very soon.

I'm actually surprised the war between the people who think "this looks like shi*e and is vaporware" vs. those that think this is "the second coming of the Cinematic Christ" hasn't already gotten underway. [end sarcasm] :laugh:
 
The war hasn't started because the second coming people have started to migrate over to the other camp.

You can only go so long posting renders before your believers decide to turn their attention elsewhere: Video DSLRS.
 
Kholi said:
The war hasn't started because the second coming people have started to migrate over to the other camp.

You can only go so long posting renders before your believers decide to turn their attention elsewhere: Video DSLRS.
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True, but at least RED is now showing actual pics of the cameras and footage/frame grabs. Hopefully both camps can coexist without getting into too big of a fight over which one has better specs.

As for me, I'm interested in both the Scarlet and HD DSLR's. Worst case scenario, if I buy a GH-1 and then a 2/3 Scarlet later on, I still have the GH-1 for stills, location scouting, and vacations.

The way things are advancing so quickly, I figure there is still not one camera that does everything and there are differences between the two options like how robust the codec is and the variable frame rates on the Scarlet.
 
Meh. We already know the footage will look great. The only things that can improve are lowlight and latitude... and honestly, do people lookin' at buying Scarlet really give a damn?

They just need to get the camera out. Period. Even if that's just the S35 Brain, that's what needs to happen. This is still teasin' and tauntin' the crowd.

ANyway, I digress. Dun wanna pee on anyone's parade too much.
 
Kholi said:
They just need to get the camera out. Period. Even if that's just the S35 Brain, that's what needs to happen. This is still teasin' and tauntin' the crowd.
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One could argue that they should've just stuck with the original plan and design for the NAB 08 fixed lens Scarlet, which they could have focused on getting out the door by now and maybe done the whole DSMC thing as a separate line in 2010.

Is the DSMC modular system nicer? Sure it is. But with the original Scarlet they would've been ahead of the D90, 5D mkII, and GH-1.
 
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