Making it look like film....

J

jujufactory

Carbonite Member
These 35mm adaptors are really expensive. Not only do you need the adaptor, but also the rods, the EX1 optimization kit, lens rings, etc. as well as the lenses themselves. Any which way you look at it, you're in for 2500 Euros. Now that's expensive. On the other hand there is something to be said about DOF and a movie look emulation.

I want to start this thread as a way to exchange ideas and experiences on getting the movie look without going through adaptors or expensive equipment.

I will start with the basic points and am hoping people here can add to the list.

(1) When filming try to stay as far as possible from the subject and zoom in. This will lower the DOF.

(2) Try to keep the iris as open as possible. To do that, add ND filters until the IRIS is wide open (without underexposing). This will also lower DOF. (To that effet I don't know if the built in NDs will do the same job as Matt Box NDs.)

(3) Keep the subject as far away from the background as possible. This will provide a better focus separation.

Hopefully the list will go on...
 
4) Pick good looking locations and DO PRODUCTION DESIGN! This is probably the most important factor beside lighting in making something looks like a real movie. DOF plays a very small role. Don't just shoot in your apartment; give some thoughts to what's going to be shown on screen and make sure that it's INTERESTING.
5) Light so that the subject appears three dimensional. This means backlight, key light, cookies in the background etc.

Keep in mind that there is no shortcut, not even through adapters. It's about taking the time to check out locations, dress up the sets so that it looks good, lighting it, then composing the shot so that it's interesting.
 
Diud you use any adaptors for any of those films? The DOF on LET'S SING looks good even outside.

(6) Shoot progressive.
 
Another way to get the film look is to never use your zoom.
Move the camera, slow and easy.

Shoot 24p.

Add grain in post.

Never blow out your highlights.

Use higher gamma settings (like Panasonic's CINE) if your camera has them.

Add film effects, like these:
http://www.artbeats.com/video_tutorials/12

Shoot as high-def as possible (at least 1080).

Lighting. Lighting. Lighting!
 
1) Is not true. If you frame a subject at one focal length, move the camera further away and zoom into the same framing, your dof stays the same. All you've done is narrowed your field of view in the background which can give the impression of a shallower dof.
 
jujufactory said:
Diud you use any adaptors for any of those films? The DOF on LET'S SING looks good even outside.
Click to expand...

Except for Girl from Yesterday everything else was shot with an adapter. I would say though that DOF isn't all that important for the movie look.
 
I just got rid of my letus because I wanted to start using other means to enhance the look of my footage as well, so I hope that this thread gets some attention.

I am interested in what can be done in post with plugins and filters and such, but have little experience in this area.

There are many examples of good films that don't even try to get "the film look", but they are nonetheless accepted as films. They still work due to storytelling, directing, acting, editing.
Also, I think that sound is HUGE. I have seen beautiful stuff posted on the web that falls flat because of lousy sound.

Don't get me wrong. I too am after the richest (or at least most appropriate) look for whatever story is being told. I just think that there are many other technical matters that are of equal or greater importance than "the film look". What about a whole different look that is also pleasing to the eye and does not distract or scream amateur?
 
Hoy Vu, I hate to bring this up but the film DARKNESS looks much more cinematographic than GIRLS so I guess you just sold me on the idea an adaptor is almost a must to get a movie look. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Granville, you just got rid of your Letus? Why would you do that? If I had a Letus, I would use it.
 
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All great answers: shoot like your shooting on film, and digital will look more like film. Frame rate, cine gamma, color, lighting, production design, it all adds up. Study films to see how they achieve all of this and translate it to what you can do.

If your camera doesn't support 24p and/or cine gamma settings, do it in post. Some DPs prefer to handle most of it in post (well, maybe not 24p, but color profiles, etc.).

Great stuff, everyone!

David
 
jujufactory said:
Hoy Vu, I hate to bring this up but the film DARKNESS looks much more cinematographic than GIRLS so I guess you just sold me on the idea an adaptor is almost a must to get a movie look. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I think neither Darkness or Girl from Yesterday is film-like, my skill level simply wasn't there. Darkness just happened to be shot with an adapter and enjoys an out of focus background, that's it. If anything, it shows that an adapter isn't a guarantee to getting a film look.

This is a better example of what good production design can do. That house we were shooting in was just PACKED with stuff, giving a great background and overall feel.These shots can be done with or without an adapter and it'll still look the same. The point is that you can definitely get very movie like shot as long as your lighting is good and the location is well chosen

5.jpg


6.jpg


2.jpg
 
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I hate to bring this up but the ALL IN FOCUS look has become synonimous vith Video Look. The first photograph of the Master shot is definitely a video look due to the total focus.
 
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence :) Video guys try their hardest to reduce dof, film guys try their hardest to increase dof.

Orson would have loved to have an EX3 for Kane :)
 
jujufactory said:
The first photograph of the Master shot is definitely a video look due to the total focus.
Click to expand...

That's funny because that was shot with an adapter, on a 24mm lens at f4 :). The table is slightly out of focus and the tree in the far background is slightly out of focus.

The point is that you can't expect to have the background out of focus ALL the time, even with an adapter. Wide shots inevitably shows longer DOF, and when the background (the wall, couch) is right next to your subject then of course it's going to be in focus. And that's perfectly normal; watch any thing shot on film and you'll see. When you don't have the out of focus background as a crutch, then what are you going to do? That's when production design and lighting comes in.
 
Huy Vu: Can you give us some details on that first frame. They all look great, but I'm wondering how you did that shot with an EX1/EX3 and a adapter?

1) How did you get the table lamps to not blow out? Did you put them on dimmers or something?
2) What did you use for lights to light the actors?
3) What were you basic camera settings, (video format, gain, etc...) because that's a pretty dark scene, yet you say you shot it at f/4.0.

When I shoot in available light at 1080 30P I almost alwasy have to run my camera and adaptor wide open. Maybe it's because I'm shooting 1080 30P which I recently found out doesn't let as much light in as 720 30P (or was it 60P? I can't remember)

Thanks! (this is a great thread!)
 
Actually the grabs were taken with the A1 and Letus Extreme, not EX1.

1)The bulb wattage was fairly low and the shade helps bring it down even lower. I actually would have like to be able to expose the second lamp in the scene as well, but that one used flourescent bulb and so I couldn't dim it.
2) One Cool Light 455 flourescent in front as fill, an a 650 fresnel to the left as hair light. You can see the setup here.

_MG_4699.jpg


_MG_4685.jpg


3) I believe I was on -3db gain on the A1. The Letus is very light efficient so I had no trouble stopping down to f4. I was shooting DV 24p though, not 1080p.
 
To continue the countdown
7
probably should be number one imho:
get a very intresting , eyepleasing subject /story or whatever to shoot.
You can make something look like film but if its just plain boring all your work ...,well will just go to the crapper .
8
editing is like a second chance at shooting your project .
Dont be afraid to turn your story upside down and inside out during the editing.
Surprise yourselves cause that is what the viewer wants.
9
For it look to like a film it should sound like a film . should be number 2/3
10
get some movement in your shots dollies , jibs etc. ( Huy Vu with a dolly track)
11
a 35mm lens adaptor will not get you the film look but more the macro look.
flame on :)
proper lighting will get you there.
12
Now that 16:9 is almost everywhere frame for anamorphic .
13....
 
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Huy,

Great stuff, and I really enjoy the production design. I see you're using Kinos, which are some of the best lights in the industry, especially when dealing with close quarters, which happens often on indie films.

And yes, Welles loved deep focus (all in focus), and I think he would've loved HD cameras of today.

David
 
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