arrestthisman
Well-known member
And I LOVE IT BTW.
I sold my hvx200 to buy it and I don't regret it one bit. The noise is a GREAT improvement. I shoot in mostly natural lighting, and often low light conditions. I know cameras need to be fed light, but the nature of my work simply requires a camera that's capable of good low light photography.
I read on the forums, I think it was Shrigg; who mentioned that gain, "doesn't add noise." Well... obviously it adds some noise. But honestly that statement is not far from the truth. 6db gain looks almost exactly like 0db. 9 is not far off, and in everything but Cine-like D 12db gain is VERY usable.
(Even in cine-like D, it's usable, but a bit too much for me. The noise from the HVX is what compelled me to get rid of it. [Honestly because of the noise in the conditions I shot in, I never liked the HVX much. I thought the DVX took much better footage the way I used it, that said, DVX is not HD, and the color of the HVX is awesome, but now with the hmc I get both. The HMC really does remind me of the DVX in so many great ways, I see why it's labeled as the successor to the DVX rather than a new product line or a stripped down HPX.])
I've found that at 0db Cine-like D, to my eye doesn't add noise. Or rather, the addition is so negligible that it's worth it if that's the look you want or plan on heavy CC. HD norm is great, and so is B.Press. Though neither have much of a noise advantage. B.Press on the HVX was a huge difference in noise: not so here. And that's great!
This camera allows you to use the gamma for the "look" rather than being more of a factor in terms of getting "Clean" images. That's the way it should be.
I've also found that detail to a certain point (with coring @ 0) really does wonders for sharpness, and again, does not add noise. (I actually couldn't tell ANY additional noise from cranking the detail from -4 with coring @ +7, to Coring @0 with detail @2.)
Lastly, I love Barry, he's a genius. But he's said many times 720p is the sweet spot because of the compression, and not much more detail. Maybe. And maybe under different shots than mine... But I just got done with some tests with the same settings, 720p versus 1080p, and with ALOT of camera movement. To be honest, no "rat in the dog's mouth" shaking, but no tripod, lots of rapid panning back and fourth, etc. And I really suck at handheld to be honest. I wish I didn't, but I do, and it still didn't break @ 1080p. I think 720p is a good idea because it likely is more robust, and for most stuff do you really need more (knowing that it's full raster on this camera!)?
1080p in my shots showed no more compression artifacts, and I had my nose to the monitor. That would have been enough (deyanu!), but I found the detail to be a significant improvement. Instantly noticeable. I didn't do a chart, but that doesn't matter a whole lot to me because this is the real world, and in the real world, I saw a MUCH sharper picture. If forced to pick a number I'd say 30% sharper, or at least 25. It was a very big difference to my eye.
To sum up, I am enthralled. I love this cam so much, that I'm not going to follow Scarlet anymore. If 2011 rolls around and they're actually shipping cameras, without bugs, and a decent workflow (that doesn't need a university supercomputer cluster) that doesn't defeat the purpose of shooting digital, I'll probably pick up one of the low end models. But having the HMC150 and seeing its footage, I've lost the lust for RED*. And that's good, because it's going to get me away from the forums and into the game of actually producing content. This may sound childish, but in my defense I have a lot of health issues and have very limited energy as a result. My previous thinking, which I think is very rational is that it is so hard for me to do a shoot it better be worth it. Quality is a factor, and I don't need the best, but something that I can watch in a few years and not say "yuk... why didn't I wait just a little while for something better." It's effort/reward, and my circumstances are different than most.
For a totally healthy person, or anyone with a normal amount of physical capacity this obviously doesn't apply, and even with my own concerns I was ready to say, GO OUT AND SHOOT ALREADY it doesn't matter what I use! So maybe it doesn't matter for me either, it's just a thought.
I think the most important thing is that the filmmaker is happy with their image. I was not happy with my HVX200, and I'm thrilled with the HMC150. What more can you ask for?
*(I truly believe that RED is awesome, don't get me wrong, but I view it as an alternative to film, with most of the same drawbacks. It is cumbersome, buggy, expensive to finish, etc. To me the beauty of digital is the David Lynch way of looking at it. A hit in quality compared to film for a drastically easier, faster, immediate workflow that uses desktop computing.) ... Different tools for different jobs. We should all be thankful they all exist or are being designed for production, from panny to sony, to ikonoskop to RED to Canon, and soon Nikon.
Anyway, I have storyboarding to work on. I just wanted to share my happiness with my fellow DVXusers on my new cam!
Happy Shooting! - Alex
I sold my hvx200 to buy it and I don't regret it one bit. The noise is a GREAT improvement. I shoot in mostly natural lighting, and often low light conditions. I know cameras need to be fed light, but the nature of my work simply requires a camera that's capable of good low light photography.
I read on the forums, I think it was Shrigg; who mentioned that gain, "doesn't add noise." Well... obviously it adds some noise. But honestly that statement is not far from the truth. 6db gain looks almost exactly like 0db. 9 is not far off, and in everything but Cine-like D 12db gain is VERY usable.
(Even in cine-like D, it's usable, but a bit too much for me. The noise from the HVX is what compelled me to get rid of it. [Honestly because of the noise in the conditions I shot in, I never liked the HVX much. I thought the DVX took much better footage the way I used it, that said, DVX is not HD, and the color of the HVX is awesome, but now with the hmc I get both. The HMC really does remind me of the DVX in so many great ways, I see why it's labeled as the successor to the DVX rather than a new product line or a stripped down HPX.])
I've found that at 0db Cine-like D, to my eye doesn't add noise. Or rather, the addition is so negligible that it's worth it if that's the look you want or plan on heavy CC. HD norm is great, and so is B.Press. Though neither have much of a noise advantage. B.Press on the HVX was a huge difference in noise: not so here. And that's great!
This camera allows you to use the gamma for the "look" rather than being more of a factor in terms of getting "Clean" images. That's the way it should be.
I've also found that detail to a certain point (with coring @ 0) really does wonders for sharpness, and again, does not add noise. (I actually couldn't tell ANY additional noise from cranking the detail from -4 with coring @ +7, to Coring @0 with detail @2.)
Lastly, I love Barry, he's a genius. But he's said many times 720p is the sweet spot because of the compression, and not much more detail. Maybe. And maybe under different shots than mine... But I just got done with some tests with the same settings, 720p versus 1080p, and with ALOT of camera movement. To be honest, no "rat in the dog's mouth" shaking, but no tripod, lots of rapid panning back and fourth, etc. And I really suck at handheld to be honest. I wish I didn't, but I do, and it still didn't break @ 1080p. I think 720p is a good idea because it likely is more robust, and for most stuff do you really need more (knowing that it's full raster on this camera!)?
1080p in my shots showed no more compression artifacts, and I had my nose to the monitor. That would have been enough (deyanu!), but I found the detail to be a significant improvement. Instantly noticeable. I didn't do a chart, but that doesn't matter a whole lot to me because this is the real world, and in the real world, I saw a MUCH sharper picture. If forced to pick a number I'd say 30% sharper, or at least 25. It was a very big difference to my eye.
To sum up, I am enthralled. I love this cam so much, that I'm not going to follow Scarlet anymore. If 2011 rolls around and they're actually shipping cameras, without bugs, and a decent workflow (that doesn't need a university supercomputer cluster) that doesn't defeat the purpose of shooting digital, I'll probably pick up one of the low end models. But having the HMC150 and seeing its footage, I've lost the lust for RED*. And that's good, because it's going to get me away from the forums and into the game of actually producing content. This may sound childish, but in my defense I have a lot of health issues and have very limited energy as a result. My previous thinking, which I think is very rational is that it is so hard for me to do a shoot it better be worth it. Quality is a factor, and I don't need the best, but something that I can watch in a few years and not say "yuk... why didn't I wait just a little while for something better." It's effort/reward, and my circumstances are different than most.
For a totally healthy person, or anyone with a normal amount of physical capacity this obviously doesn't apply, and even with my own concerns I was ready to say, GO OUT AND SHOOT ALREADY it doesn't matter what I use! So maybe it doesn't matter for me either, it's just a thought.
I think the most important thing is that the filmmaker is happy with their image. I was not happy with my HVX200, and I'm thrilled with the HMC150. What more can you ask for?
*(I truly believe that RED is awesome, don't get me wrong, but I view it as an alternative to film, with most of the same drawbacks. It is cumbersome, buggy, expensive to finish, etc. To me the beauty of digital is the David Lynch way of looking at it. A hit in quality compared to film for a drastically easier, faster, immediate workflow that uses desktop computing.) ... Different tools for different jobs. We should all be thankful they all exist or are being designed for production, from panny to sony, to ikonoskop to RED to Canon, and soon Nikon.
Anyway, I have storyboarding to work on. I just wanted to share my happiness with my fellow DVXusers on my new cam!
Happy Shooting! - Alex
