The Best High-Budget NLE System!!

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grinner said:
... the guy asked me a question and I answered it based on what I know.
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And what do you know about FCP? Have you done more that look at pictures of the interface in the trade mags? Have you edited anything using FCP? Do you own an Apple computer?

So, you're recommending that Aboammar chooses FCP over Avid, even though you have little to no experience using FCP? I think if you actually used FCP your answers might have a little weight. Heck if Aboammar demo's FCP he'll have more experience using FCP than you do.

I know you can get into an MC for 40k.
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MC is $40K. Is that right? Is that how your helping educate others about the differences is the products? Why don't we level the playing field here and compare the cost of MC software to FCP software.

MC software only - $2500
FCP software only - $1200

What was that you were saying about being an educated consumer?
 
And what do you know about FCP? Have you done more that look at pictures of the interface in the trade mags? Have you edited anything using FCP? Do you own an Apple computer?

I've been on it since version 1.

So, you're recommending that Aboammar chooses FCP over Avid, even though you have little to no experience using FCP? I think if you actually used FCP your answers might have a little weight. Heck if Aboammar demo's FCP he'll have more experience using FCP than you do.

see answer above. You are starting to make a fool out of yourself.

MC is $40K. Is that right? Is that how your helping educate others about the differences is the products? Why don't we level the playing field here and compare the cost of MC software to FCP software.
MC software only - $2500
FCP software only - $1200
What was that you were saying about being an educated consumer?

see his post stating the quote he got.
lol
 
grinner said:
I have been on an Avid product longer than anyone else here. I saw it grow to awesomeness from conception.
then I had to watch as they began that rapid spiral downward.
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Well, I've been using Avid since 1994, and FCP since 2003, so I think that makes me qualified to give opinions. I agree with you that the hardware based Meridian was better than the Adrenaline, but the Adrenaline still blows FCP out of the water as far as speed, accuracy, and ease of use in a professional environment go. In addition, Final Cut Server is a joke compared to Avid Unity.

grinner said:
While I use to be able to use Avid's name as a selling point for my business, in this market, it's now something that has to be down-played.
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And what exactly is your market? Wedding videos? The last I heard, Missouri hadn't supplanted Los Angeles and New York as the media capital of the world.

You're right, bottom-feeders everywhere are using FCP. They don't pay their editors very much money so they don't notice that it takes longer to edit on FCP than it does on Avid. When you're paying your editors well, then you'll find it's cheaper to use Avid because it is faster.

grinner said:
. You don't see Avid suites being built today.
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That might be true in Missouri, but certainly not in Hollywood. 20th Century Fox just bought 22 Nitris DX systems:
http://news.creativecow.net/story/861197

grinner said:
Hope on mandy.com and do a quick search for current editor staff gigs... 2/3 are now FCP as that's what people are buying.
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Mandy.com is not an accurate representation of the marketplace. The best jobs in Hollywood are never posted online. They're all word of mouth.

grinner said:
I don't think they plan on being around much longer.
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So that's why they're going to NAB, to announce that they're going out of business?

I think you're wrong. Avid has never been more affordable. Most major films and TV shows are cut on Avid, and I really don't think that is going to change anytime soon.
 
again, I'm to recruiting either direction. Just telling peolpe wha I know.
I can't afford to do wedding videos and such, Jim. My clients range from Budweiser to ESPN.
Flavor of NLE is no longer a concern of theirs but they are all savvy enough to know how buggy Adrenaline suites are. There are a few DS suites in town that still bring a premium rate but no new ones. The new suites are indeed celebrated FCP suites and new often brings in the curious.
In the end all of us have to market ourselves the best way we see fit. I just recall a day I could use my Avid as a selling point in that venture while now it's best not to mention it.
 
grinner said:
again, I'm to recruiting either direction. Just telling peolpe wha I know.
I can't afford to do wedding videos and such, Jim. My clients range from Budweiser to ESPN.
Flavor of NLE is no longer a concern of theirs but they are all savvy enough to know how buggy Adrenaline suites are. There are a few DS suites in town that still bring a premium rate but no new ones. The new suites are indeed celebrated FCP suites and new often brings in the curious.
In the end all of us have to market ourselves the best way we see fit. I just recall a day I could use my Avid as a selling point in that venture while now it's best not to mention it.
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Could you post a link to your companies website? I am statring to think you are an ass speaker but your demo real will indeed let us know for sure. Please post your demo real with the Budwiser and ESPN footage that you edited.
 
aboammar said:
Hi everyone :)

Finally, I had the chance to see a real-world demonstration of Avid's Media Composer with Nitris DX. The demonstration was done in my friend's MediaCast Systems company in Dubai (www.mediacastsys.com).

The company happened to be the distributor of Avid Systems, Apple Final Cut Systems, Adobe Systems, and SpeedEdit, so my friend was very frank with me, and not biased with his recommendations. Long story short, FCP is a software based system, and it demands 100% on the host system to process everything just like Adobe Premiere Pro (without Matrox DigiSuite LE or Axio LE hardware) and like other software NLE such as Vegas.

So, FCP is not for me, and I do no like Adobe Premiere. So, hardware assisted RT performance was limited to only Avid's Media Composer (or Symphony) with Nitris DX. Please note that there is a difference between property hardware-assisted, and property hardware depended. Hardware-depended depends 100% on its property hardware to process all RT things, and it uses the host systems for non RT process. Such systems include Velocity, VelocityQ, and VelocityHD. The other type, hardware-assisted uses it own property hardware to "accelerate" most process in real-time with the help of the host system's CPU, and the GPU in some systems. Such systems includes Avid NLE with the Nitris DX (Mojo is only I/O interface). I think some of Eduis NLE systems is also hardware-assisted, but I am not sure.

Back to Avid again, the Nitris DX is not just BOB like Mojo, and other low-cost BOB. It has chips to to accelerate (in conjunction with the CPU, and GPU) most of the processing of its native video formats, especially with the DNxHD codec. So, multi-streams of full quality HD playback is possible in realtime. Also, the Nitris DX dose realtime trans-coding to DNxHD codec when capturing.

Back to the demonstration; the demo was prepared and done by an expert editor (with over 20 years experience). He started working with Avid's system since its introduction 20 years ago. It was called back then Avid Film Composer. I asked to use the footage of my EX3, so after installing the Sony Clip Browser, and using it to copy my clips to Media Composer. He did a quick editing with 4 HD streams with PIP, and basic dissolve translation, and the system was able to play back everything in realtime with full-quality, full frame rate. Please note that we did not transcode to DNxHD codec, it was all done with XDCAM file format natively. Also note that the system configuration did not include any Raid, or dedicated video drive, we used the Windows system drive!! That's amazing.

With dedicated video drive, and even RAID configuration, he said I will be able to play back even more HD streams in realtime, and I believe him. They did not recommend Symphony for me unless am going to do alot of color correction and grading since there are very minor changes between MC and Symphony, and Symphony only offers a secondary color correction.

In fact, they said if I want to upgrade from MC, I should consider DS, not Symphony, because DS offers much much more and its worth its price if I will be doing alot of compositions and special effect.

Well, I think I will be doing my compositions, motion graphics, and special effects in After Effect, and Combustion, so, I have decided to go with full turnkey of Avid Media Composer Nitris DX system, and I thank very much everyone contributed on this subject.
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I used to think the more RT layers the better until I tried Premiere Pro. Edius/Canopus does indeed use the CPU and hardware together. Infact they were the first company to make use of the CPU. I might give Edius the nod for editing video only but audio is half the equation. From noise reduction to simply normalizing the audio gain Premiere kicks the snot out of Edius and I imagine the same would hold true against Avid.

How is the Avid's audio support? Does it have a musical composer or spectral frequency display to remove unwanted sounds?
 
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aboammar said:
I don't think he would say something from nothing .. it dose not make sense to me!!!
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I checked with one of my contacts [don't ask me to give a name] at Avid Technologies who happens to be pretty high up on the totem pole. You can take my word for it or not. Anyway, I directed this person to view this thread and here is what this person had to say about it:

[Grinner] is not even close to the reality. I believe it is the fact that he feels that Avid has not advanced development as much as he would like - so he takes a complete negative approach to the response. Basically, not true at all.
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So now it becomes a "he said, she said" scenario. You all are entitled to believe whatever you want. One thing is for certain - time will tell! And I'm certainly very curious about what Avid has to announce/ship for NAB 2009. :)
 
grinner said:
Avid's audio tools are still weak. You can add certain plugins and you'll quickly find work arounds for many/most needs.
medeamagic, my reel is on my website
http://grinnerhester.com/reel.html
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I did video editing from 1997 to 2002 using an Avid Media Composer. Our system used the old Targa 2000 along with the old Pinnacle Geni board for the RT Effects. Back in 1997 there was no FCP. I think it was Key Grip back then. When I get an interview for an editng position I have never had the employer look at my Avid experience as a negative. That is why I thought you may be an ass speaker. In the end it is your experience that counts. I only edit for local cable shows myself but I had fun. I admit having Avid editing experience back in 1997-2002 is not as impressive today as it was back then but I still put it on my resume. Why wouldn't you?

I thought Premiere 6.0 was a joke compared to Avid and even FCP. Premiere Pro was indeed a much better program and the integration of the Adobe products is Premiere's real strength.
 
I didnt know this was a discussion about resumes.
If wanting to be marketable as a freelancer, you'll wanna know both Avid and FCP, as well as After Effects and Photoshop. If applying for a staff gig, one really just needs to know what they have. Same if you are a one man band... just be able to push your gear further than others.
Back to the original poster's question(s), a purcahse revolves around needs and has much to do with price. I was not trying to start a flame war by pointing out the obvious... that FCP offers the most bang for the buck in the case of many. It should at least be demoed before dropping 40k on an arguably obsolete MC. If I could rewind time and not write my last check to Avid, I would. thats all I'm saying.
 
grinner said:
It should at least be demoed before dropping 40k on an arguably obsolete MC.
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I still have problems with seeing what's so obsolete with MC as an editing setup. Editing software basicly has one task, editing. Even up here in the cold budget concious Norway we still use Avid a lot, even though FCP has made its way into the business because of pricing.

And would 20th century fox invest large in avid or NBC use a complete avid workflow in Beijing if it was obsolete?
 
grinner said:
I didnt know this was a discussion about resumes.
If wanting to be marketable as a freelancer, you'll wanna know both Avid and FCP, as well as After Effects and Photoshop. If applying for a staff gig, one really just needs to know what they have. Same if you are a one man band... just be able to push your gear further than others.
Back to the original poster's question(s), a purcahse revolves around needs and has much to do with price. I was not trying to start a flame war by pointing out the obvious... that FCP offers the most bang for the buck in the case of many. It should at least be demoed before dropping 40k on an arguably obsolete MC. If I could rewind time and not write my last check to Avid, I would. thats all I'm saying.
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again, I'm to recruiting either direction. Just telling peolpe wha I know.
I can't afford to do wedding videos and such, Jim. My clients range from Budweiser to ESPN.
Flavor of NLE is no longer a concern of theirs but they are all savvy enough to know how buggy Adrenaline suites are. There are a few DS suites in town that still bring a premium rate but no new ones. The new suites are indeed celebrated FCP suites and new often brings in the curious.
In the end all of us have to market ourselves the best way we see fit. I just recall a day I could use my Avid as a selling point in that venture while now it's best not to mention it.
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Grinner, the quotes above are yours. I guess you are the main reason it has become a resume thread if we may call it such. You gave a little info about your experience with Avid and I gave you mine.

What year did you start editing on an Avid? Back in 1997 there was no FCP so you should indeed be happy with your purchase if you are a veteran. As of today I doubt I would want to invest in Avid but that only proves time changes everything. We edited 3/4" and Beta in 1997. The MC I used to use would be nothing more than a paper weight as of today. Your Avid experience and my Avid experience are very different as is our attitude. I do include FCP, AE and even Premiere Pro experience on my resume. The only one who would look down on Avid or Premiere would be a pompus ass blow hard and not a real editor in my opinion. In the end the clients you worked for and companies you worked for are more important then the software program you used. If ILM switched to Edius it would not mean Edius is the best software solution but working for ILM would indeed be impressive to most clients.
 
Avid just released Media Composer 3.1.2.

So much for Grinner's opinion that "MC will get no futher updates or up grades due to the fact that Avid no longer has a developmental department."
 
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