Resolution of HPX150/HMC150

[Gogu]

Hello ,

Since these 2 cameras have appeared in Panasonic's lineup I don't understand wether they are both capable of recording 1080P resolutions ? I'm talking about full raster 1080p like the EX1 ?
What codecs do they use ? I know the HMC uses AVCHD what about the HPX ?

Can you also tell me the bitrates of these codecs and the colour compression ?

Thanks!

 

[PerroneFord]

Both record 1080p, but neither have 1920x1080 sensors like the EX1. The HPX uses DVCProHD.

DVCProHD is a 100 Mbps codec, the HMC-150 uses 24 Mbps AVCHD. DVCProHD is 4:2:2 color and I am not sure about the HMC150, but someone should be able to answer you shortly.

 

[Aroon_Narayanan]

DVCProHD is 4:2:2 color and I am not sure about the HMC150

AVC HD is 4:2:0, like HDV.

 

[Gogu]

Thanks guys.

What is the method used by these cameras then to achieve 1080p ? that interpolation pixel shifting thingie ?

The DVCProHD is long GOP like the EX1's ? It should be of better quality at 100mbps 4 2 2 opposed to the 35mbps 4 2 0 of the EX1 right ?

 

[Huy Vu]

What is the method used by these cameras then to achieve 1080p ? that interpolation pixel shifting thingie ?

Yes, one of the chip is slightly off-set to maximize the available number of photosites.

The DVCProHD is long GOP like the EX1's ? It should be of better quality at 100mbps 4 2 2 opposed to the 35mbps 4 2 0 of the EX1 right ?

DVCPROHD is intraframe, so each frame is independent unlike long GOP. The CODEC is better quality, not necessarily the IMAGE. The EX1 is a lot sharper than the HPX and the HMC because it has bigger full raster sensor.

 

[PerroneFord]

The CODEC is better quality, not necessarily the IMAGE.

The codec is also only 1280x1080 for 1080p sources so that's another area of concern. The 100Mbps intraframe portion is awesome, but the resolution hit in the sensors and the codec are rather disappointing. But saving full raster at 100Mbps would take a ton of storage.

 

[KMR]

What is the method used by these cameras then to achieve 1080p ? that interpolation pixel shifting thingie ?

It's not interpolation. The green CCD is physically offset in relationship to the other two CCDs, so its active photosites are in the areas between the photosites in the other CCDs.

 

[Dino]

The codec is also only 1280x1080 for 1080p sources so that's another area of concern. The 100Mbps intraframe portion is awesome, but the resolution hit in the sensors and the codec are rather disappointing. But saving full raster at 100Mbps would take a ton of storage.

That's right, that's why AVC Intra is exciting, it records full raster, 10 bit Intra Frame 4:2:2 1080/24P Native, allowing for 40 minutes on a 32Gb card at 100Mbps or 80 minutes at 50Mbps.

Now all that needs to happen is for Panasonic to make a camera other than the HPX3000 or 3700 to take full advantage of it. We think there is a much lower cost AVC Intra camera that is imminent, but we don't know what the sensors are, CCD or CMOS, full raster or pixel offset.

 

[DanHD]

AVCintra kicks ass, but until it hits the prosumer market, DVCPRO HD is your best I frame only choice for a codec

The hpx170 and HMC150 resolve a little under 1080p resolution, which is an incredible feat of engineering. Alot went into perfecting the pixel shift techology.
The EX1 is a good camera as well, but the LongGOP codec and rolling shutter are deal breakers for me. Plus the EX1 does not perform as well under tungsten balance, probably because of the inherent sensitivity to Blue in a CMOS chip

But the EX1 is very sharp and clean, almost too much so. I prefer the 170's look.

 

[doccutter]

The codec is also only 1280x1080 for 1080p sources so that's another area of concern. The 100Mbps intraframe portion is awesome, but the resolution hit in the sensors and the codec are rather disappointing. But saving full raster at 100Mbps would take a ton of storage.

Hmm, well actually, it doesn't matter what the resolution is, 100Mbps is the amount of storage used. Therefore, if you're recording 640x480 @ 100Mbps or 4000x3200 @ 100Mbps, you're using the same amount of storage.

 

[DanHD]

Hmm, well actually, it doesn't matter what the resolution is, 100Mbps is the amount of storage used. Therefore, if you're recording 640x480 @ 100Mbps or 4000x3200 @ 100Mbps, you're using the same amount of storage.

Yes, but the Higher the resolution, the more compression is used to meet that maximum bitrate

 

[Dino]

Hmm, well actually, it doesn't matter what the resolution is, 100Mbps is the amount of storage used. Therefore, if you're recording 640x480 @ 100Mbps or 4000x3200 @ 100Mbps, you're using the same amount of storage.

Yes, DVCPRO HD at 720/24P Native has a bit rate of 40Mbps, not 100Mbps. Bit rate is not a good way to judge image quality or resolution. An older codec like DVCPRO HD or MPEG2 is not optimized for low bit rates, whereas MPEG4/ AVC/h.264 codecs are.

I think the color space, actual compression ratio, and Inter or Intra frame structure is more telling than bit rate, also bit depth of 8 vs. 10 bits.

Native is the best way to go with P2 cards, if 24p or 30p is the desired frame rate. AVC Intra allows 1080/24 or 30P Native, which is very useful.