Is the RED Camera the Future of Independent Film?

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Oh and whats this about me being from the UK that isn't saying much Jason?

Do you have a problem with the UK! We're great - we invented the Vanilla Slice and the Sausage Roll? ;)
 
sorry zak I should have stated why i didn't like it rather than just saying i didn't like it., i pmed you with the reasons. mainly subject and lighting.
 
the only insult from me was after you said
"I think Jason is basically a noob full of ambition"

if you can't take an insult, don't give them out.
 
Zak thanks for the link to POI - not sure how I missed the thread but I'm glad you brought it back up. A fantastic example of what you can do without any adapter or fancy RED camera. I love the RED and its look, but not having it or an adapter or any other piece of fancy equipment isnt keeping anyone from making a great film.
 
Don't be insulted Jason! We all have to start somewhere and at least your ambitious! ;)

brianluce i don't think anyone is taking this too seriously, i mean look at the debate! So don't fret for the spirit of Xmas (Santa's okay!) Im not surprised that Zak is exasperated!!
 
lawriejaffa said:
Oh and whats this about me being from the UK that isn't saying much Jason?

Do you have a problem with the UK! We're great - we invented the Vanilla Slice and the Sausage Roll? ;)
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didn't the Germans invent the Sausage roll?

and man that a Private msg in response to your public insult of me, why bring it public?
 
lawriejaffa said:
Don't be insulted Jason! We all have to start somewhere and at least your ambitious! ;) So I actually complimented you!

brianluce i don't think anyone is taking this too seriously so don't fret for the spirit of Xmas (Santa's okay!)
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no worries, all is forgiven, and hey many people see being called a pompous ass as a compliment, I know the man in your avatar did.
 
and zak thank you for you input on my DP reel I'm still working on it, its not my Directors reel I've removed it from all online areas since I've desided to start over and only make Christian films, the only thing I really leave up is my Thesis project, for vfx, and my dp reel.
 
Oh caaalm down Jason - honestly your aiming for most sensitive guy of the year! You posted that on this thread - and indeed you have pm'd me a copy it seems. So what its still sillyness anyway.

I think your getting too excited by my portrait pic mon amie - relax! I promise you im not the ghost of your past colonial masters here to patronise you from beyond the age hehe

Zak thanks for the link to POI - not sure how I missed the thread but I'm glad you brought it back up. A fantastic example of what you can do without any adapter or fancy RED camera. I love the RED and its look, but not having it or an adapter or any other piece of fancy equipment isnt keeping anyone from making a great film.
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That has been the REAL point of this thread - which is the reality of that statement and not the BS marketing of those who say that real movies need this many mega pixels lol! I think that is the point we should return too.
 
hey i liked him, he was a good actor, only good part of street fighter, and while I'm not really a sensie, I have noticed that California ckicks dig them. so i'm practicing
 
Um yeah thats great Jason - so anyway just noticed your saying you are only making Christian movies - i mean come on you should def if you havent already - check our Brandon's Christian movie. I doubt he was crapping his pants about getting a Red to film his moralistic drama.
 
hahaha wow, I brought up No greater Love in one of my posts that you responded to, I think its a beautiful film. I thing NGL as good as the hvx will ever get. I think that if they put it out to dvd then It will look as if it was shot on 35mm. but I also believe that ifthey want a teater release they are going to lose a lot in the upres to 35mm film.

my entire point is this, NGL was shot on the hvx, Brandon is a great dp, as beautiful as it looks on the hvx, if he had shot it on the red in 4k, then as amazing as it is, it would have been much more amazing.
 
Yup but as you'll surely agree ol' chap - that amazingness is relative to where that film will be distributed. No Greater Love is overall a DVD movie really.

I mean come on, that film probably couldnt have been made on a RED - for the required manpower to use it properly annnnd the cost of course.

My point is that there is not an unlimited scale of coolness - the image of 720 and 1080 is acceptable to audiences, there not clamouring for more and more - so its the loss of us filmmakers that we should be sold a ridiculous dream of competing with so called hollywood just so they can profit from us buying cameras that may be unnecessary and inferior than others 'for purpose.'

But heres the larger point...

the REAL POINT...

How many of Brandons test audience complained that the film was not a higher res - how much % - i think you may find its marginal... sooo marginal as to be irrelevant.
 
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I think its sad that NGL is going to dvd rather than theaters, I think it would reach many more people if it could.

I went to a segraph event about a year ago, they were showing off sony's 4k projector. soon theaters all over the world will have them, so film transfer will be almost a thing of the past. they showed sme film stuff, some red stuffm some pixar 4k renders, and they showed some 2k stuff and the 2k stuck out like a sure thumb. with 4k cameras, and 4k projectors in theaters throught out the modern world, the 4k+ future is going to be here much sooner than you think.

now hd, and dv will still be around for a long time, and even with blueray NGL and films like it will be beautiful as they were shot in hd,

and for sd tv and internet apps, dv is still wonderful, but the future of film will be messured at the theater. and theres no getting around, thats a 4k world.
 
Oh that makes no businesss sense dude - but first, im sure NGL will play at some theatres i mean its up to them, i dont think there will be a general theatrical release but im only speculating.

People measure film by their experiences of 35mm, now HD videos and even standard def video have already been transferred to 35mm for show in cinemas before... for commercial release. That bench mark was passed and approved... Do you think suddenly people will just demand 4k from their low budget film producers if all manner of media has pleased them enough so far?

You miss the point - its not about matching the best that could be done - or 4k or any number for that matter. Its the point at which a film can be shown in theatre to an audience who won't not want to watch it becuase its too 'blurry'. Now do you see how laughable it is to concern yourself with res in cinema now? If even mini dv has been transferred and passed the scrutiny of public audiences then you should be worrying yourself with stories and not the marketing propoganda of camera manufacturers.

I think its a bit nuts to me to say the future of INDEPENDENT film will be measured by the theatre? I mean how many new indy films did you watch on DVD compared to the cinema... unless your going to the cinema every week then most will be through DVD. A nicely shot hvx200 with adapter looks cracking on a 1080p 50" screen!!! So whats the point of 4k then? Cos it looks even better... such logic could justify any unncessary expenditure.

Why are folk investing in plasma screens - why do their size matter? Why has cinema been in DECLINE for decades? These are all signs and opportunity for low budget filmmakers - there not warning signs that bigger digi cams are needed for higher res cinema releases.

Because there is no 4k world... or 3 or even 2k world. Its a multi-media world...

Now for what vested interest would you even be so concerned that we should be living in a film economy where resolution is all important and cinema releases dictate the nature of film production? It's basis for the kind of films you and i will make are quite irrelevant.
 
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where do you get that mini dv can pass in theaters it can't, it hasn't a few tried, some docs a basketball film, but nothing that went anywhere. as I said the 2k which is better than hd by a bit, stuck out and looked pretty bad. and this was foootage that if shown on an hd screen would have looked awesome.

"Now for what vested interest would you even be so concerned that we should be living in a film economy where resolution is all important and cinema releases dictate the nature of film production? It's basis for the kind of films you and i will make are quite irrelevant."

ok I think I see our problem, its film thats our problem

not my kind of film, film. film, not tv not dvd, not industrial stuff, film, the 4 k image is replacing film, film, film filmmakers make film, video makers make video, i think thats the point we've been having trouble with, generic use of film, i'm guilty of it., theater = film., typicly 35mm untill the 4k, there for, the 4k is the future of indi filmmaking, as the 4k is replacing film. once again filmfilmfilm in this entire converstaion i've been talking about film the movies made with the hvx, like NGL are beautiful but they are not FILM they are very film like video, but they will not replace film, the red and the 4 5 6 7 ks that come after it will replace film.

can we agree on this, (film)
 
There have been a number of films shot on mini dv video or smaller format film (16mm for example, s16mm) which have won distribution and transfer to 35mm for cinema release.

I keep saying it but for example 28 Days Later is one, Iraq in Fragments, Dog Soldiers oh loads really.

On these boards most think 4k is a bit of gimmick mate... certainly for a low budget indie i think it is. Yet my point stands mon amie, compare the films of the past - from a mini dv transfer to a 35mm and audiences will not say it was the res that marked whether they liked a film or not. Watch a 2k and 4k tech presentation/comparison and sure - a tech geek will notice the difference, but thats not the reality our films will occupy in the eyes of our audiences...

Um im a bit confused by your second point but basically your asking if i agree that digital will eventually replace film? Well I don't think that speculation is important - i doubt it will entirely but i think you can just look at the history of PROFESSIONAL film formats so far for your answer. I certainly don't buy into the so called red revolution rubbish hehe.

It looks like your looking for a definitive answer on this issue, but there isn't one.
 
Portions of 28 days later were shot on dv, not the film, I've heard of Dog Soldiers, haven't seen it but want to, but of the three you listed only one was a wide release with success. 28 days later,


I'm not looking for answers, I'm giving answers, and its obvious we should just agree to disagee
 
Yah, i mean don't make me drag my ass through imdb to list films shot on s16, 16 and video that later got cinema releases, suffice to say 'enough' to make the careers or profits of directors and production companies.

Of those films that had nice runs at cinema remember its relative also - relative to 'success'. For Neil Marshall the director of Dog Soldiers that nice little cinema release and the impressiveness of his film got him good critical review coverage and set his career off. Its not res that gets you into the cinema either my friend... distributers... agents etc... marketing izt what does.

Bare in mind also - your Christian digi movie isnt going to get a mainstream cinema release either... your just wanting to create a good enough impression on a big screen (for most producers its so you get critical reviews and buzz going into cinemas.)

And heck lets look at a big movie, Lucas and the land of 1080 Star Wars... if that was good enough for audiences then i dont think our most likely crappy micros shot on 4k are going to make one squat of difference lol

Again - good stories, good characters, good cinematography will. Good resolution - just one element a modest one too in the huge scheme of things.
 
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