the whole 4:2:2 thing - to David Heath

David S. said:
We have both.

What tests does anyone want run?

And I don't do charts.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see shots of the exact same thing. Say an outdoor shot with lots of colors and some detail in it. Assume the 2 cameras are set side by side.

HMC-150: at 720/24p and 1080/25p

HPX-170: at 720/24p and 1080/24p

Even just still photos would be nice to compare the differences or lack of difference...

Your comments on the videos would be nice... Do you see much of a difference in color or image quality.


Thanks,


Bob Diaz
 
Footage in the original codec, not keyed. People want raw shots to play with for themselves. So the original m2ts directory structure, and the original MXF directory structure, would be ideal.
 
A video is best, BUT for the sake of those who may not have the software to see the raw footage, still images would be helpful too.


Bob Diaz
 
I'm going to set up our screen this weekend hopefully, and make certain my well paid talent will agreed to be videoed.

Heck, I married her, so she better.
 
Raw sample footage of both cameras. This is what I was looking for.

This will be really welcome.

Thanks in advance!
 
Raw footage AND stills, please...
Many people (including me) have had problems importing the AVCHD footage downloaded over the Internet to FCP even though the directory structure was preserved.
I had to transcode it first, which would make comparison unfair.
If you post the stills, let us know how they were created (which player).

I greatly appreciate your effort! Thanks
 
HMC-150 HDMI output

HMC-150 HDMI output

Hi All,

If the HMC-150 has the same "front-end" as the 170, I would assume that, at some point, it has access to a broader color space before a 4:2:0 image is recorded, and I was wondering if the HMC 150 HDMI port can output uncompressed, 4:2:2 ? If this is possible, it would seem like it might be possible to output the same image from the HMC-150 HDMI as is possible from the 170 HD-SDI?

And if the HDMI port outputs this uncompressed 4:2:2, are there HDMI recorders (with large hard disks) that could capture this (assuming these recorders are "somewhat" portable) ?

I'm new to this technology, so please forgive any ignorance or bonehead questions :)

Thanks!!
Randy
 
rtmst3k said:
Hi All,

If the HMC-150 has the same "front-end" as the 170, I would assume that, at some point, it has access to a broader color space before a 4:2:0 image is recorded, and I was wondering if the HMC 150 HDMI port can output uncompressed, 4:2:2 ? If this is possible, it would seem like it might be possible to output the same image from the HMC-150 HDMI as is possible from the 170 HD-SDI?

And if the HDMI port outputs this uncompressed 4:2:2, are there HDMI recorders (with large hard disks) that could capture this (assuming these recorders are "somewhat" portable) ?

I'm new to this technology, so please forgive any ignorance or bonehead questions :)

Thanks!!
Randy
Click to expand...

I have not used one yet however I am pretty sure that there are HDMI conversion boxes that will allow you to record images from the camera bypassing the AVCHD codec, giving you 4:2:2.
Recording the images to your hard drive via your NLE or some other software.

If I am wrong on this I'm sure someone here will point us in the right direction.
 
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Yes, theoretically the HDMI output should be comparable (if not identical) to the HPX170's HD-SDI output. And yes there are or will be HDMI recorders; isn't the NanoFlash an HDMI recorder? You can output to a blackmagic intensity card through HDMI too.
 
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rtmst3k said:
If the HMC-150 has the same "front-end" as the 170, I would assume that, at some point, it has access to a broader color space before a 4:2:0 image is recorded, and I was wondering if the HMC 150 HDMI port can output uncompressed, 4:2:2 ? If this is possible, it would seem like it might be possible to output the same image from the HMC-150 HDMI as is possible from the 170 HD-SDI?
Click to expand...

I haven't been able to get clear answer to this question so far. Panasonic says both cameras have the same lens, sensors and processing chip. They don't say anything about how the analog signal from the CCDs is processed.
Sure, the sample rate at the CCD is the same (and depends on luma resolution, which is usually higher than sensor native resolution) but what happens with this digital signal next?
Does 150 extract 4:2:2 chroma space first (and outputs such via its HDMI) and then downsamples it to 4:2:0 before AVCHD encoding?
Or rather the opposite is true? Panasonic might limit the performance of 150 on purpose (to not compete with 170) - in this case the 150 would get 4:2:0 chroma from combined pixel-shifted sensors and only upscale it for 4:2:2 HDMI output?
 
Recording HDMI

Recording HDMI

Hidef1080 said:
Nano Flash Recorder
http://www.convergent-design.com/downloads/nanoFlash/nanoFlash Brochure.pdf

Blackmagic HDMI to SDI
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/miniconverters/
Click to expand...


So it sounds like you can record the output from the HMC-150 HDMI port, but you need TWO devices - an HDMI-->HD-SDI converter box, then you pick up an HD-SDI recorder like the nanoflash (records to SDHC cards).

Hope someone from Panasonic will consider making a recorder with an HDMI port onboard so we could have a "one box" solution for this...

Thanks,
Randy
 
rtmst3k said:
So it sounds like you can record the output from the HMC-150 HDMI port, but you need TWO devices - an HDMI-->HD-SDI converter box, then you pick up an HD-SDI recorder like the nanoflash (records to SDHC cards).

Hope someone from Panasonic will consider making a recorder with an HDMI port onboard so we could have a "one box" solution for this...

Thanks,
Randy
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure you can record to your hard drive using Premiere Pro if your computer / laptop has an SDI port.
So I'm thinking HDMI-->HD-SDI-->NLE.

Again I have not done this myself but I'm almost 100% sure that it is an option.

http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/Pre...t=WS900278C5-C826-45dd-97B5-2AC27D6CC3CB.html
 
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Hidef1080 said:
I'm pretty sure you can record to your hard drive using Premiere Pro if your computer / laptop has an SDI port.
So I'm thinking HDMI-->HD-SDI-->NLE.

Again I have not done this myself but I'm almost 100% sure that it is an option.

http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/Pre...t=WS900278C5-C826-45dd-97B5-2AC27D6CC3CB.html
Click to expand...

Yes, that would probably work too, but it's still a 2-box solution.

I can think of two possible 1-box solutions:

1. A nanoflash-type product that has "HDMI-in" instead of "HD-SDI in". Recording
to a dedicated onboard disk.

OR

2. A laptop or a small desktop with some type of HDMI "capture" capability, but
the path from HDMI to disk would have to extremely fast assuming it's
uncompressed HD coming over the HDMI? Isn't uncompressed HD something
like 270 megabits/second?

Again, I haven't spent a whole lot of time yet researching these alternatives. I'm just getting started with all this research...

Thanks everyone!!
Randy
 
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