HMC150 vs XHA1?

Robbie Comeau said:
Personally, I don't like the gamma on the A1. Just feels contrasty.

The DVX and it's rich colors, with it's great gamma (that of like the HVX), is something much more preferred by a filmmaker like I.
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You said it just the opposite. The A1 is low contrast non-vivid colors in the factory default settings. The user needs to properly adjust the presets to get it up to the gamma, contrast and colors of the DVX, HVX and HMC, but that's what presets are for.
 
As Robbie says, he prefers the look of the Panasonics over the Canons. I like both but I prefer the Canon image a bit more. It is a very subjective thing.

As for the myth that the A1's don't have a good film-like image, yes out the box they are set very neutral. Once you get the custom presets going then it looks great. There are some DVX-match custom presets for the A1 that, at least to my eyes, match the DVX-look perfectly.
 
Is there anyplace that I could download raw footage from both cameras? Ideally shooting the same scene with similar settings, of course.

I've often read that the XH-A1 is sharper than the HVX, but then I saw that Berry has said he has tested this and it isn't so in 24F. I need to be able to pull a lot of decent web quality stills from my footage for one of my projects, I am finding my HV20 reasonably sharp enough, but I need something with better low light sensitivity and true manual controls.
 
In 1080i mode, the XHA1 is definitely sharper. In 1080/24p vs. 1080/24F, I posted the pictures that show they're about the same.
 
Barry_Green said:
In 1080i mode, the XHA1 is definitely sharper. In 1080/24p vs. 1080/24F, I posted the pictures that show they're about the same.
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hmc150 vs xha1 at 24p are about the same? Where are the pics? So the 150's sweet spot is definitely 720p? Have you ever seen or made a 720p blu-ray (is that even possible)?
 
Resolution-wise and motion-wise, yes they'd be very similar. Color-wise, the Canon cannot approach what the Panasonic can do in-camera. Noise-wise, and sensitivity-wise, the Panasonic will blow the Canon into the weeds.

For pics, you'll have to ask someone who's got one or the other. I did my testing based on the original HVX200 and the original XHA1.

I think the 150's sweet spot is 720p, not that there's anything wrong with its 1080 but its 720 makes for extremely efficient compression.
 
Barry_Green said:
Resolution-wise and motion-wise, yes they'd be very similar. Color-wise, the Canon cannot approach what the Panasonic can do in-camera. Noise-wise, and sensitivity-wise, the Panasonic will blow the Canon into the weeds.
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As much as I love shooting with my A1, I have to admit that Canon really dropped the ball with the miniscule upgrades on the A1s. When you add-up the better sensitivity and lower noise levels with having 60p, the HMC-150 really becomes tempting. Once AVC-HD becomes smoother on the post production side of things then the tapeless advantage really stands out more than it does even now.

Barry, how does the HMC look at 9+dB gain? Is it pretty clean? This is one of the things that annoys me about the A1, it jumps from 6+ to 12+ dB in the gain settings. A lot of the time 6+ is just not enough while 12+ is too much.
 
For event shooters, the tape of the A1 is the real advantage. Cheap media with 1hr record time can't be beaten by the tapeless cams yet, especially for multi-hour events.
 
The A1 picture looks great to me and no issues with HDV. I actually prefer the flatter stock Canon colors to the hyped out colors of my 100B (yeah yeah, both cameras can be tweaked for days.....) and I'm a tape fanboy.
Then again I'm also a nobody.....:beer:
 
jmc said:
For event shooters, the tape of the A1 is the real advantage. Cheap media with 1hr record time can't be beaten by the tapeless cams yet, especially for multi-hour events.
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That is a major reason why I am keeping my A1 for a while. I need tape and SD for a lot of the work I do with the camera, while I can shoot HD and 24p for personal projects. I think Canon should've added AVC-HD to the A1s in addition to keeping the tape drive. Add 720/60p and it would've covered all the basic needs.

Plus, HDV post workflow works great now. AVC-HD's post workflow is newer and not as efficient as it will be once there is more demand for it. An A1s with both HDV and AVC-HD would've been a perfect transition camera.
 
Nektonic said:
Barry, how does the HMC look at 9+dB gain? Is it pretty clean? This is one of the things that annoys me about the A1, it jumps from 6+ to 12+ dB in the gain settings. A lot of the time 6+ is just not enough while 12+ is too much.
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I posted some shots of the HMC150 at +12dB against the DVX, and at 12dB it looks cleaner to me than a DVX at 0dB. I don't know how it looks at +9, but the overall noise level is low and I recall +6dB being fairly transparent, so I would bet +9 is reasonable.
 
jmc said:
For event shooters, the tape of the A1 is the real advantage. Cheap media with 1hr record time can't be beaten by the tapeless cams yet, especially for multi-hour events.
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Are you sure? Things are changing fast. The 150, at 6mbps mode, could record over an hour and a half on a 4GB card, and that 4GB card costs only about $5 now, about the same as a DV tape.

The real trick is what do you do when you need to record *more* than an hour? The 150 can go for 12 hours in one continuous recording if you used a 32GB card. And while 6mbps isn't the highest-quality mode, you can get pretty darn good out of 13mbps, and you'll still get 1.5 hours out of a $13 8GB card.
 
Barry_Green said:
I posted some shots of the HMC150 at +12dB against the DVX, and at 12dB it looks cleaner to me than a DVX at 0dB. I don't know how it looks at +9, but the overall noise level is low and I recall +6dB being fairly transparent, so I would bet +9 is reasonable.
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Thanks Barry. I shoot weddings and events so noise and sensitivity is a big issue with me. Sounds like the HMC is well suited for this type of work.
 
I think the 150 would be great for that type of work, especially because it's light and very well balanced. It's soooooooooo much better than an HVX or EX1 for handheld work!
 
Barry_Green said:
I think the 150 would be great for that type of work, especially because it's light and very well balanced. It's soooooooooo much better than an HVX or EX1 for handheld work!
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Is it about as light as a DVX? That would be great. The A1 is a little front heavy.
 
Barry wrote:
'Things are changing fast. The 150, at 6mbps mode, could record over an hour and a half on a 4GB card, and that 4GB card costs only about $5 now, about the same as a DV tape.'

He is right, prices drop like economy... But it is hard to compare apples with apples.
The 6 Mbit/s low quality on card can not compare with the 25 Mbit/s HDV, and shooting on a cheap $5 card is not reliable enough for shooting sustained video on memorycards. But it's closing the gap. Today editing HDV is great, the tapes are a nice backup.
 
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