SCARLET / EPIC swiss army knife camera details announced
- Thread starter Jack Daniel Stanley
- Start date
LuckyStudio 13
The Tapeless One
Too bad the Dec 1st Nikon 'BIG' announcement is going to be for a 20+ megapixel Nikon D3x and possibly a higher megapixel Nikon D300x or D400. No full time 35mm camcorder from Nikon. So... all hopes for affordable 35mm sensor camcorder points back to Red.
I wouldn't call them confused. Every camera manufacture goes through this process. The only difference is Red actually communicates with its customers throughout the development of its cameras. On the other hand, I can see why some might be frustrated but I do think its unwarranted.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
If you ask any business analyst to look at RED's business model and a track record of their actions, both external and internal, I feel confident that most would agree with my assesment. RED is a private company and can do exactly as they want but if I were on that ship, I might think that the captain has been hitting the Rum cask too hard. They are plotting a course with a lot of aimless meandering.
Dan
Ian-T
Veteran
I had to jump in here and say.....wow!!:beer:
I think I rather trust a billionare about his business model. Its easy to sit on the sidelines and past judgement. As I stated, Red could of remained quiet until NAB 09 to announce the specs but they choose to share their process with us. You don't think Sony or Panny go through that process internally. Look at the car companies...how many cars have been showcased that have never seen the light of day. Lastly, I think most filmmakers will credit Red for pushing the technology to new heights, which will benefit all of us so have yourself some rum and dont be hater. :beer:
adkimery
Veteran
And there is a reason almost every single company does these things internally instead of out in the open.:cheesy: I can only imagine the uproar if Sony or Panasonic or Apple released work-in-progress products and/or went with a 'here is our next product kinda/sorta/not really' mindset. Detroit, or NHK, showing proof of concept and/or prototype products is different from Red revealing a camera and saying 'This is what you'll get in 12 months. Maybe."
I followed the development of Red One pretty regularly from the time it was just a rumor up until they start getting into the wild. But once it became clear the cameras, firmware, and support software were all still in development I tuned out. I was like, if and when I work w/Red I'll get up to date on it then but there's no point in trying to stay on top of info that changes every couple of weeks. When it's done I'll check it out. That's how I am towards Scarlet and Epic as well. Looks cool. I'll check back when a working product is shipping.
Red has the advantage of being small and nimble and they should use that to their advantage but they should also make sure not to trip over their own feet.:beer:
-A
I followed the development of Red One pretty regularly from the time it was just a rumor up until they start getting into the wild. But once it became clear the cameras, firmware, and support software were all still in development I tuned out. I was like, if and when I work w/Red I'll get up to date on it then but there's no point in trying to stay on top of info that changes every couple of weeks. When it's done I'll check it out. That's how I am towards Scarlet and Epic as well. Looks cool. I'll check back when a working product is shipping.
Red has the advantage of being small and nimble and they should use that to their advantage but they should also make sure not to trip over their own feet.:beer:
-A
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Definitely not a hater, I know several people who work for RED and I think that they have some great minds at work there. I just feel that their marketing strategy is going to prove ineffective in the long run, if they keep endlessly making announcements to make announcements. Even quite a few of the RED loyalists are becoming restless and embarrassed at this strategy if you read the threads over there.
Yes, Jim Jannard probably knows much more about marketing than I do, you can't argue with his track record but a mass market commodity like premium sunglasses is a long way from a tiny world like digital cinema cameras. Related businesses but totally different businesses, ours is much smaller and is made up of a more rabid audience of cynics.
It will be interesting to see what the next year brings.
Dan
slimchrisp
Well-known member
and you know this how? not saying you're wrong, just not sure how you can definitively say that. i guess we'll find out next week.
Have to agree with you on the announcement thing...it is getting old. I just hope they deliver in 2009 and if the Red One is any indiction, I think they will.
The problem is Jannard could lose every cent he's invested in RED and walk away just as he started: with more money than he could ever spend. RED has shown every indication of someone's hobby, not someone's business. Making everyone hold their breath until November 13 and then a week later saying "Okay, hold your breath again until December 3rd" isn't marketing , it's whim. The boys over at Ikonoskop have a much leaner operation and are small time comparatively but they've been around longer and I think they'll have more staying power over the long term -- dudes are scraping out a living and paying bills.
hawaj
Well-known member
Oh c’mon…, I spent 15 years as creative in advertising agencies dealing with 99% whim and 1% of something meaningful from clients marketing. So then tell me something about what marketing is and what isn`t? Blsht :badputer:
Btw do you know why are things so changing with Red?
Simply because people at Reduser forum dont keep their mouth shut and ask for it. If you dont ask for it you dont get it.
Only delays are pretty anoying, but when you dont`t know any term then you dont`get upset with delays he he :beer:
That`s like all others brand behave.
combatentropy
Veteran
I doubt Scarlet would arrive much sooner if RED kept its development secret. Maybe a little sooner, but would it be as good?
I only wish other companies held forums with its users. I think the main reason they haven't is because the Internet is still young and big businesses adapt to new possibilities slowly. Who knows? Maybe in five years or so even the bigger companies like Sony and Panasonic will have Internet forums with their customers.
I only wish other companies held forums with its users. I think the main reason they haven't is because the Internet is still young and big businesses adapt to new possibilities slowly. Who knows? Maybe in five years or so even the bigger companies like Sony and Panasonic will have Internet forums with their customers.
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Otis Grapsas
Carbonite Member
There is marketing an then, there is marketing. Don't forget that all the big camcorder companies started in Japan. The business ethics of Japan are different. It's exactly what you would expect from a nation that hands over their meishi (business card) while holding it using both hands.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Panasonic's been communicating with their customers on the Internet since 1998 or so. And they even have an end-user forum on their European broadcast site.
Mattykins
Cute Member
The new F35 by Sony as well as the 23 when it came out was developed and then they had numerous forums with cinematographers to make it excellent. So the 35 was designed to be a camera for shooters and was designed with their input. So companies do have forums about the development of their cameras.
lawriejaffa
Veteran
I'm with Brian Luce, on this one, his description of the marketing for Red seems somewhat Apt. Hawaj and his somewhat incoherent msg (trust me mines are always more incoherent and include various typos) i think is a bit of a cop out. Of course marketing is hectic and busy, and not always disorganised, but there is a reckless disregard about Red's marketing, and its clumsy attempt to foister brand loyalty (and elitist concerns) with 'enlightened post digital revolutionaries' that makes me think hmm...
Told you my post could er make less sense. But that is what the hype seems to be seeking.
Ie.
Red is 'anti-establishment' - its sooo revolutionary, its marketing is almost like a burger promo at hard rock cafe 'join the revolution hehe.' Then we're smacked with incredible specs and dates with little credibilty.
There must and will be a reason Sony and Panny don't just go - oops our bad, and drop various and similarly priced Scarlet cams.
Innovation has proven time and time again that an entrepeneur (typo im sure) can come along and kick ass... but this camera market is well developed... there not stupid, and so i wonder how credible Red's plans are.
I will say this, that of course their tailoring for Cinematographers, real productions etc, but their fan boy marketing obviously indicates,
'a target market of young noobie gimps with loads of disposable income'
I mean look at the kid ads, and tell me you don't get a jist of that vibe?
Oh and...
Just to add, its interesting the contrast that emerges with the Ikonoscope cam, or even Otis' product, in how a 'dignified marketing campaign' or impression, can draw such heightened sceptism or scrutiny of Reds ads.
My comments are just about the marketing btw
Told you my post could er make less sense. But that is what the hype seems to be seeking.
Ie.
Red is 'anti-establishment' - its sooo revolutionary, its marketing is almost like a burger promo at hard rock cafe 'join the revolution hehe.' Then we're smacked with incredible specs and dates with little credibilty.
There must and will be a reason Sony and Panny don't just go - oops our bad, and drop various and similarly priced Scarlet cams.
Innovation has proven time and time again that an entrepeneur (typo im sure) can come along and kick ass... but this camera market is well developed... there not stupid, and so i wonder how credible Red's plans are.
I will say this, that of course their tailoring for Cinematographers, real productions etc, but their fan boy marketing obviously indicates,
'a target market of young noobie gimps with loads of disposable income'
I mean look at the kid ads, and tell me you don't get a jist of that vibe?
Oh and...
Just to add, its interesting the contrast that emerges with the Ikonoscope cam, or even Otis' product, in how a 'dignified marketing campaign' or impression, can draw such heightened sceptism or scrutiny of Reds ads.
My comments are just about the marketing btw
Denis Haineault
Well-known member
adkimery
Veteran
Yes, companies can, and do, solicit input from working professionals. Companies also troll message boards to see what users are saying. They just typically don't do it in an official capacity. A problem Red is having is that by doing so much completely out in the open they are getting comments from the entire spectrum of users and the signal-to-noise ratio is only going to get worse as Red becomes more well known.
-A