SCARLET / EPIC swiss army knife camera details announced

SomewhereinLA said:
well...yes and no... Professional is not a camera standard, it really doesn't mean anything. For example a good portion of "natural born killers" (Oliver Stone) was shot in super 8mm, which is hardly pro
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couldn't agree more. actually, after the d90 was released and i equated it to 16mm, i started snooping around about 8mm (which i love the look of, and 16mm - to the point of simulated that antiquated look as a special feature on "the bet" dvd where i tried to make 2k look like small format film) and actually bought an 8mm camera to "play" with, much they way i'll "play" with the d90 i'll be getting. i mixed still images with motion to decent effect.

i like the idea of what red is doing, i just wish there could have been an entry level, less than OMFG-28K!!! component. something that would have, as others have mentioned, been the gateway drug. i am not a gearhead and have no interest in keeping track and upgrading and swapping and third-partying. i, as a director with an artistic eye, wanted to "play" and learn so when my DP says X, i can suggest Y and have a reason, a valid reason, why. not to mention shooting some stuff for friends' videos and maybe a short film or two.

what i think is funny is that the red fanboys are saying that now that there's a camera on the horizon that they can maybe afford, that NOW is the time to start working on that great script. i, on the other hand, have all these scripts that could be shot if only i could get a camera that makes sense. :beer:
 
Kholi said:
OMG you beat me too it. I was just in IMs talking about this SAME thing. The 2/3" Sensor can shoot 3k @ 120fps but the S35 that costs more can't shoot that?

He hasn't said it yet, but why not clear the air like they cleared the air about the PL mount option on the FF35?

And wtf would want any Scarlet if you're stuck at 5K @ 30fps?

This is exactly why half the forum is up in arms. They're being as vague as a blank sheet of paper right now. Oh well.
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Maybe im not such and idiot after all.
 
Brochure Updated.

Brochure Updated.

The brochure has been updated and replaced in the first post. Not sure what's different but it's updated. The original posted brochure is no longer available for comparison.
 
And here I was all upset about the how the economy is in ruins and it's taking forever to put together the funding for my Prod Co. By the time the economy recovers and I finally get all my capitalization in order, I'll be able to get a 48k image for about $1200! ;)

Seriously, though, cameras suck. First we were going to get EX1s. Then EX3s came out. Now there's the S35 Scarlet on the horizon, which, for my purposes, is way more useful than the previous fixed lens "3k for $3k" option.

At this rate I'm tempted to just buy a couple 100b's and dump $20k into lighting instead of cameras. ;)

-Jeff
 
And once again there is the old saying: "It's not the tools, it's the craft!"

Or put otherwise : If Chaplin would have been waiting for color and sound, a lot of masterpieces would never have been made.

Peter
 
Peter - Oh, no doubt. I once shot a short on a JVC gr-d372u camcorder. ;)

My comment was more directed at the seemingly-ever-more-rapidly-advancing technology curve. Analog cameras were a relatively stable marketplace with long cycles... no matter which camera you were shopping for, you knew you could get about X camera for $Y and there wouldn't be any major improvements drastically changing the market for at least Z years. And even then, those shifts (i.e. 24p shooting) were relatively minor compared to now.

The last two years, however, have been completely off the charts and unlike anything ever seen. Digital format recording and the HD (r)evolution have significantly picked up the pace. The DVX-100b was released in late 2005. That was only three years ago, and was the culmination of a long and stable period where DV ruled the world... If you could have caught someone as they plopped down their $5000 for the brand new 100b and told them about the EX1/3 or the Red One or the Scarlet or any of a dozen other game-changers in the last three years, what do you think there reaction would have been?

The point that I was making is that we've never had this much of an increase in performance with such a subsequent decrease in cost in such a short time. This moment is unprecedented in the history of filmmaking, and I don't think even the most experienced of us on these boards could remotrely predict what that $5000 could buy you in 2015, just 10 years after the last DVX.

As far as what cameras we go with when our first round capitalization is finally complete... who knows? I'll narrow that down based on my options available when the money's actually in the company's bank account. And for the record, Scarlet won't make that consideration list until it's out, tested, and I've used one.

-Jeff
 
For the record: Here is what has changed between the first and second brochure.

Page 4:

Old: Scarlet is compact, lightwight and supports a wide range of poppular motion and stills formats.
New: Scarlet is compact, lightwight and supports a limited range of motion and stills formats.

Sensor Size Chart: S35 Sensor was changed from 30x24mm to 30x15mm

System specs chart: The RedOne Stills size was changed from 9,4 MP to 12,6 MP

Frank
 
Jack Daniel Stanley said:
OK so ...

  • 2/3" scarlet $2500
  • nikkor f mount $500*
  • Red LCD $1750
  • red dual brick $1500
    power pack
  • (no view finder)
$6250
all of those prices may be old except for the scarlet, or maybe not even applicable to the scarlet it's all Redone stuff.


  • HPX 170 $5200
  • Letus Extreme $1200
    (no rods)
$6400

What else? What's the cheapest Scarlet you can put together? What am I forgetting.
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youll need the audio I/O breakout for the RED. + a recording solution and some of the hardware to tie your red system together. hopefully it will be not too much for the audio IO, and Im very hopeful about the "wireless and ethernet data streaming" mentioned, because if what that means is that you can just set up an app on a laptop and stream recording over a wireless network in the field it would ve killer. no file transfering in between takes or later .. instant reviews .. ect. that would rock.
 
Postmaster said:
For the record: Here is what has changed between the first and second brochure.

Page 4:

Old: Scarlet is compact, lightwight and supports a wide range of poppular motion and stills formats.
New: Scarlet is compact, lightwight and supports a limited range of motion and stills formats.

Sensor Size Chart: S35 Sensor was changed from 30x24mm to 30x15mm
Click to expand...

basically, we're making it up as we go along. :)
 
It has absolutely nothing to do with not having the gear.
I own the best gear you can buy period.
Its called making a huge sacrifice moving from a well placed boom mic (schoepsmk41/ sanken cs-3's..etc)
to a wire (Lectro 411's, sanken cos11's, b6's) that is buried under clothing.

Its like taking vasoline and smearing it on your lens. Yes you can still see the picture, but is it nearly as good?




lovetrumpsfear said:
This could be the Newcastle talking, but it seems to me that if you're working on a production that can afford to throw fifty-five thousand dollars(!) at the sensor alone, to say nothing of support, acquisition, and editing hardware, you'll probably have money in the budget for a dozen wireless lavs. :laugh:
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Postmaster said:
For the record: Here is what has changed between the first and second brochure.

Page 4:

Old: Scarlet is compact, lightwight and supports a wide range of poppular motion and stills formats.
New: Scarlet is compact, lightwight and supports a limited range of motion and stills formats.
Click to expand...

It's too bad Red had to change their marketing strategy to placate those Red One owners who were whining about their cameras becoming obsolete. Someone needs to tell those whiners that new technology comes along every day. If Red doesn't innovate, they will get crushed by their competitors. Hopefully the actual features on Scarlet did not changed, only the wording in the brochure.

Sensor Size Chart: S35 Sensor was changed from 30x24mm to 30x15mm
Click to expand...

To be fair, this was probably a typo on Red's part because the picture did not change, and it looked like it has 30x15mm proportions.

System specs chart: The RedOne Stills size was changed from 9,4 MP to 12,6 MP
Click to expand...

They also changed the Red One total pixels from 4520 x 2304 to 4900 x 2580.
 
Jack Daniel Stanley said:
OK so ...

  • 2/3" scarlet $2500
  • nikkor f mount $500*
  • Red LCD $1750
  • red dual brick $1500
    power pack
  • (no view finder)

$6250
all of those prices may be old except for the scarlet, or maybe not even applicable to the scarlet it's all Redone stuff.


  • HPX 170 $5200
  • Letus Extreme $1200
    (no rods)
$6400

What else? What's the cheapest Scarlet you can put together? What am I forgetting.

I'm hoping the Scarlet 2/3" with fixed zoom will be $6K or lower because the "FLY BY REDWIRE FEATURE" I'm speculatin, may mean a servo controlled lens.

2/3" HPX 500 with a zoom was plenty of DOF fore me when I used it. So I would prefer an electronically controllable lens on a 3K 2/3" camera than still lenses on it.
Click to expand...

Neil Rowe said:
youll need the audio I/O breakout for the RED. + a recording solution and some of the hardware to tie your red system together. hopefully it will be not too much for the audio IO, and Im very hopeful about the "wireless and ethernet data streaming" mentioned, because if what that means is that you can just set up an app on a laptop and stream recording over a wireless network in the field it would ve killer. no file transfering in between takes or later .. instant reviews .. ect. that would rock.
Click to expand...

Maybe you can take $430 off my speculative total as you can get a C to nikkor f mount adapter at B&H for $70.

My real hope is that the 2/3" with zoom attached comes in under $7.
So for comparible to an adapter with the HVX and no recording media, you have an electronically controlled lens that's optimized for their digital sensor and the already shallow DOF of a 2/3" chip. True not a s shallow as a 35mm adpater. But comparible to 16mm, and much more manageable in resolutsions where focus is so criticle - where most people with 35mm adpators should be shooting anyway, a liitle stopped down and not so wide open all the time.

But to get rid of the cumbersome adaptors and have 3k with an remote servo controlled lens in a comparible price range. Sheesh.
 
Sumfun said:
Red One owners who were whining about their cameras becoming obsolete. Someone needs to tell those whiners that new technology comes along every day.
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Er, except that those "whiners" spent $30,000 to $60,000 with Red based on the promise that a Red One "renders obsolescence obsolete." As far as I know, nobody's ever made a promise like that before, yet here they are offering what looks like a far more upgradeable system, rendering my "obsolescence-proof" Red obsolete... so if I still had my Red One and I saw a Scarlet claiming better performance for 1/3 the price, I think I might "whine" too, based on the promises that were made. And being told that I had full upgrade value to an Epic is not all that much consolation since that'd mean a minimum of $11,000 or so in additional expense. I think Red is going to have to tread carefully here.

With that said, yes technology always moves forward and there will always be something new. I think every other buyer of every other product knows that, there isn't any sort of promise (implied or otherwise) that current buyers will forever remain current. But Red did promise otherwise, so we'll have to see how they intend to deliver on those promises.
 
Barry_Green said:
Er, except that those "whiners" spent $30,000 to $60,000 with Red based on the promise that a Red One "renders obsolescence obsolete." As far as I know, nobody's ever made a promise like that before, yet here they are offering what looks like a far more upgradeable system, rendering my "obsolescence-proof" Red obsolete... so if I still had my Red One and I saw a Scarlet claiming better performance for 1/3 the price, I think I might "whine" too, based on the promises that were made. And being told that I had full upgrade value to an Epic is not all that much consolation since that'd mean a minimum of $11,000 or so in additional expense. I think Red is going to have to tread carefully here.

With that said, yes technology always moves forward and there will always be something new. I think every other buyer of every other product knows that, there isn't any sort of promise (implied or otherwise) that current buyers will forever remain current. But Red did promise otherwise, so we'll have to see how they intend to deliver on those promises.
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Totally agree. I would probably be the most unpopular RED ONE owner right now if I had a stake in the cameras that I shoot with as far as money is concerned. And right now they seem to be scrambling to soften the blow. I'm not business savvy and this is only a thought and not a suggestion to RED but perhaps adopting a traditional approach to business will be the way to go in the future. All of this hype seems to have snuffed out future RED ONE camera sales as there are a lot of people that were planning on getting two or three more bodies very soon.

My own personal hype is fading as details are blurred in unanswered questions and angry voices. What will these cameras NOT be able to do? And are they crippled because of size or to protect the early adopters that made everything possible?

These are just questions and not accusations.
 
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