Cost to film a feature ? (what did u spend?)

So is it perhaps better then to just focus on writing and selling the scripts for indies, leave the indie filmmaking to the studios' indie divisions? Or, can an indie-filmmaker-wannabe still make a buck making a good $50k indie film and selling it to a distributor when finished? I am confused on this (the odds of selling a $50k indie), or at least uncertain. I would love to make an indie, honestly, it sounds really fun, the ultimate art form, but to put $50,000+ of my own money on the line and two years of work writing the script, pre-prod, shooting, post, I just might decide the reward:risk ratio is just too low.

Honesty appreciated in replies for this concern, because lots of [my] money and [my] time is on the line if I go down the path of making an indie feature. While I would love it as an art form, I did not win the lottery so if the odds are slim of getting my production money back and then some for my time and energy, honestly I would rather be told that by those of you that know, and make an informed decision, maybe then makes shorts for the sake of art, write scripts, do some oil paintings, etc.

ChipG said:
... Hollywood is trending back to the studio's developing thier own movies where they buy a script and develope it themselfs from the ground up, produce it then distribute it. It gives them more profit and eliminates amateur mistakes...
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Randall_Oelerich said:
So is it perhaps better then to just focus on writing and selling the scripts for indies, leave the indie filmmaking to the studios' indie divisions? Or, can an indie-filmmaker-wannabe still make a buck making a good $50k indie film and selling it to a distributor when finished? I am confused on this (the odds of selling a $50k indie), or at least uncertain. ...

... honestly I would rather be told that by those of you that know, and make an informed decision, maybe then makes shorts for the sake of art, write scripts, do some oil paintings, etc.
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I believe that you can make and sell a great indie movie. But it has to be great and in a genre that can sell. If your storyline is about a Lesbian Art Teacher who finds herself after falling in love with a dramtic male painter washed up with long monologues - then yes I don't think your movie is going anywhere.

When people on this board talk about "Corrado", "A Lonly Place For Dying", and "No Greater Love" and most feel confident that these can sell. You have to ask yourself "Why?" Why can these sell or people fell confident when less than 5% of movies get distribution? The answer to this is an opinion and not fact and should not be perceived as fact.

1. Most movies made are not good. I'd say probably less than 50% are actually worth watching. I've been to numerous websites, seen countless previews, trailers, scenes of indies shot with budgets ranging from $2K to $2 Million. And most of those movies I'd never care to see in my lifetime. The acting is bad, plotting is bad, shots are bad, the audio is bad, the lighting is bad, movement is bad, camera work is bad, color is bad. So the first thing you have to do is set yourself apart from this pool of just bad movies.

2. Have a story that either fits into a niche market, i.e. "No Greater Love" (Christian) or "Corrado" (Action) . Niche markets are better because there's always a need for movies. This need is unquencable. Over 60% of Amercians consider themselves Christian, and at least 20% are true evangelical/born again - I'm not faking it - Christians. That's a huge market. 12 to 21 year old men have serious testosterone issues, so Action is a huge seller.

3. Tell a story people want to hear and don't offend anyone as you do it. One of my biggest pet peves is that many African-American movies say small things about other races (I'm not going into this, just using as an example). Why do this? Why alienate 60% of the population? Tell a good story and don't add your personal greviences about the world to it. And if you do, do it softly.

4. Make sure your production quality is the best it can be. Don't settle for "good enough." Don't think it's okay to use "natural light" don't say "hey the camera has XLR ports - why don't we buy a cheap mic and pipe the audio into the camera." Take every major "on screen" piece seriously: Lighting, Camera, Audio, Production Design/Art Design, Makeup-Waredrobe.

5. Put as many "weapons" in your distribution arsenal as possible. Niche market, named actors, comedians, sports figures. In "A Lonely Place for Dying" you have named actors in smaller parts than the lead, but they have the ability to go to a distributor and say "Hey my actor was in Such and Such, and they weren't an extra. They had a real role." In "A Lesson Before Dying", I couldn't remember who Michael Wincott was. The name didn't ring a bell. but as soon as Justin said "He was Guy of Gisborne" from Robin Hood, I was like WOW! Have some WOW in your movie.

6. Listen and learn, practice hard before you roll camera.

I think if you can follow these guidelines you'll set yourself apart from 90% of the indie world. Even though people say such things as "Only 5%" make it, they forget to say that less than 10% are even qualified.

EDIT - changed the title. Thanks Ted
 
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jls4 said:
I believe that you can make and sell a great indie movie. But it has to be great and in a genre that can sell. If your storyline is about a Lesbian Art Teacher who finds herself after falling in love with a dramtic male painter washed up with long monologues - then yes I don't think your movie is going anywhere.

When people on this board talk about "Corrado", "A Lesson Before Dying", and "No Greater Love" and most feel confident that these can sell. You have to ask yourself "Why?" Why can these sell or people fell confident when less than 5% of movies get distribution? The answer to this is an opinion and not fact and should not be perceived as fact.

1. Most movies made are not good. I'd say probably less than 50% are actually worth watching. I've been to numerous websites, seen countless previews, trailers, scenes of indies shot with budgets ranging from $2K to $2 Million. And most of those movies I'd never care to see in my lifetime. The acting is bad, plotting is bad, shots are bad, the audio is bad, the lighting is bad, movement is bad, camera work is bad, color is bad. So the first thing you have to do is set yourself apart from this pool of just bad movies.

2. Have a story that either fits into a niche market, i.e. "No Greater Love" (Christian) or "Corrado" (Action) . Niche markets are better because there's always a need for movies. This need is unquencable. Over 60% of Amercians consider themselves Christian, and at least 20% are true evangelical/born again - I'm not faking it - Christians. That's a huge market. 12 to 21 year old men have serious testosterone issues, so Action is a huge seller.

3. Tell a story people want to hear and don't offend anyone as you do it. One of my biggest pet peves is that many African-American movies say small things about other races (I'm not going into this, just using as an example). Why do this? Why alienate 60% of the population? Tell a good story and don't add your personal greviences about the world to it. And if you do, do it softly.

4. Make sure your production quality is the best it can be. Don't settle for "good enough." Don't think it's okay to use "natural light" don't say "hey the camera has XLR ports - why don't we buy a cheap mic and pipe the audio into the camera." Take every major "on screen" piece seriously: Lighting, Camera, Audio, Production Design/Art Design, Makeup-Waredrobe.

5. Put as many "weapons" in your distribution arsenal as possible. Niche market, named actors, comedians, sports figures. In "A Lesson Before Dying" you have named actors in smaller parts than the lead, but they have the ability to go to a distributor and say "Hey my actor was in Such and Such, and they weren't an extra. They had a real role." In "A Lesson Before Dying", I couldn't remember who Michael Wincott was. The name didn't ring a bell. but as soon as Justin said "He was Guy of Gisborne" from Robin Hood, I was like WOW! Have some WOW in your movie.

6. Listen and learn, practice hard before you roll camera.

I think if you can follow these guidelines you'll set yourself apart from 90% of the indie world. Even though people say such things as "Only 5%" make it, they forget to say that less than 10% are even qualified.
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Very on point, great stuff! But let me be the first to mention that Prodigi's film is called "A Lonely Place For Dying", not "A Lesson Before Dying".

Which would have been a pretty crappy title, I might add : )
 
A very close analogy to screenplays and their potential. Seems dismal (selling a screenplay) if you look at the numbers, but actually it is very good if you know how to look at the numbers. According to Michael Hauge and others, only 1 in 10 screenplays are even formatted correctly (I have seen this firsthand in screenwriters in a local screenwriters group--writers who have written 5+ feature screenplays but their screenplays look like a five year old wrote them, literally), proper use of INT, EXT, font, dialog formatting, spelling, etc.; so do that right and your screenplay is in the top 10%. Only 5% of all screenplays follow the hero's journey / Sid Field structure. So format a screenplay correctly, tell a hero's journey with Aristotle plot and such and your screenplay is in the top 5% of all screenplays written. Now write three such screenplays and get agency representation and you have a good shot, especially if your screenplay has a compelling story and is not sci-fi (expensive to produce), and three screenplays triples your odds. Anyhow, I just noticed the analogy, so I can totally see how it is so easy to make a bad film-- and it scares me that I might also make one of those bad films, but I certainly would not expect a distributor to buy up a bad film I make, that is my fault if I do that (and yet I have seen some really really really bad film on the shelves at Blockbuster that I have rented and paid money to do so and watched, and regretted--a victim of great DVD cover art, compelling words on the back of the DVD container, and not first checking user reviews of the film-- how on earth those films got picked up I have no idea--I am talking films with an average blockbuster user review of 0 stars out of five, yup zero). I imagine in these days of digital equipment and digital editing software, it is pretty easy for just about anybody to go out and shoot an indie film, but how good the actual product is becomes another story, and I can only speculate (not having experience) that what you say is true, that 95% of indies are too poor a product to get picked up. All components likely must be very good to get picked up and be in that top 5%: story/script, lighting, actors, editing, music, etc.

jls4 said:
... I think if you can follow these guidelines you'll set yourself apart from 90% of the indie world. Even though people say such things as "Only 5%" make it, they forget to say that less than 10% are even qualified.
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I just read this article on the web
http://www.indiewire.com/biz/2008/06/irst_person_fil.html
which seems to say everything you discussed. So it makes sense--take a great (not just good) screenplay, tell an emotionally entertaining story by way of film. Tall order, but reminds me to be patient if needed, wait until I would have a great script-- as the article points out, you will know that when great talent is fighting over the roles; man, that seems like a hard goal in terms of writing though.

jls4 said:
I believe that you can make and sell a great indie movie. But it has to be great and in a genre that can sell. ... I think if you can follow these guidelines you'll set yourself apart from 90% of the indie world. Even though people say such things as "Only 5%" make it, they forget to say that less than 10% are even qualified.
Click to expand...
 
you guys have pretty much narrowed it down to the essentials of indie realities...

but making your first feature is like making love for the first time; all the books in the world and the best advice doesn't help you when you're actually standing in a room with a sure thing giving you the Greta Garbo look.

It's a totally different experience from anything you've ever experienced before.

You might botch your first movie, but you'll learn how to do it better next time. There are some people that get lucky from their first movie. Take Tom Cruise for example with Risky Business. He was only 17, right out of high school, and he's never looked back.

A short film is like masturbating or at best a quickie in the backseat of a Chevy. Selling your script to the studios, even if they find it acceptable, is like pimping your first love. You'll never forgive yourself for not holding out, like Stallone with Rocky.

You seem to be a well-read guy, Randy; don't try to make it perfect the first time. There is no perfection in art anyway. It's not about perfection. You don't want to lose money and you must plan, but think of pre-production like it's foreplay -- it's important. It will lead to a satisfying experience -- maybe the earth will move for both of you. And then there is the after-play -- post production.

It's the cigarette at the end that bugs the hell out of me, the BS that goes on after it's all said and done -- the distribution.

That's what I'm trying to find out these days from these two guys, Adam and Justin....
 
Randall_Oelerich said:
So is it perhaps better then to just focus on writing and selling the scripts for indies, leave the indie filmmaking to the studios' indie divisions? Or, can an indie-filmmaker-wannabe still make a buck making a good $50k indie film and selling it to a distributor when finished? I am confused on this (the odds of selling a $50k indie), or at least uncertain. I would love to make an indie, honestly, it sounds really fun, the ultimate art form, but to put $50,000+ of my own money on the line and two years of work writing the script, pre-prod, shooting, post, I just might decide the reward:risk ratio is just too low.

Honesty appreciated in replies for this concern, because lots of [my] money and [my] time is on the line if I go down the path of making an indie feature. While I would love it as an art form, I did not win the lottery so if the odds are slim of getting my production money back and then some for my time and energy, honestly I would rather be told that by those of you that know, and make an informed decision, maybe then makes shorts for the sake of art, write scripts, do some oil paintings, etc.
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If your out to make money and worte a script your thinkng about producing why not put it out there first to see if it gets picked up by someone, it's rare but it does happen. I have seen indie's get $25k + for thier scripts, more than thier entire indie budget and without having to spend a year shooting it and post production.

Heck, a friend who lived 5 doors down the street from me growing up in Kansas City (Mike Brandt: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0104973/ ) wrote the the script for 2 fast 2 furious, he went to LA after highschool, waited tables, busted his ass and pursued his dream, he sold it for over $1 million (the highest price ever paid for a script at the time).

It can be done!

You know the old saying, if you have a good script get in your car, drive down the 405 in LA and throw it out the window. If it is good it will find it's way into the hands of a studio exec. :)

If your doing this as an artist and it's your dream to make a movie go out and do it! Just be cautious and educate yourself with the business aspects and markets before you take the plunge, know your risk. If everyone is making Blair Witch movies do the opposite.

Do some market resaech and see how many indie's for your genre have made those typs of movies, how did they sell? Who bought them? What are the demographics ect.

I do believe if people put as much effort into the market research as they do writing, directing or producing thier features it will GREATLY increase thier chances of getting money for thier next project.

Don't give up, just limit all the risk you can.
 
ChipG said:
Heck, a friend who lived 5 doors down the street from me growing up in Kansas City (Mike Brandt: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0104973/ ) wrote the the script for 2 fast 2 furious, he went to LA after highschool, waited tables, busted his ass and pursued his dream, he sold it for over $1 million (the highest price ever paid for a script at the time).
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not disputing the point, but I thought I'd mention that Shane Black sold The Long Kiss Goodnight for $4 million, setting the bar in 1995. i'm sure someone has bested that by now. but again, not disputing the point you were making.
 
I do have two feature scripts written, one good (supernatural thriller), one I believe is great (romcom). But neither could be made on a low budget ($50k or less) like I imagine, so I can not use them for making an indie myself. My goal has been to write three good or better feature scripts and then get agency representation (i.e. having 3 scripts shows potential agents I am not a one trick pony act). I am working on a third feature script, but it too could not be done indie, as it (action-horror) takes place in the Amazon rainforest, ancient ruins, creature effects, etc. So one conclusion that is becoming crystal clear (though discussions here, which I really truly appreciate, thank you all so much) for indie filmmaking is that to have a decent chance of success (selling a finished indie film) the indie script must be great and K.I.S.S. style; I do not have such a script now, so the reality is I am putting a cart before a horse worrying over budget, a camera, cinemetography, etc.-- seems I need to first retreat back into writing and when I have the great K.I.S.S. script only then can I think about making it into a film. And perhaps another script I write that is good, but not great and KISS, might sell and then finance a great KISS script I have yet to write. Am I thinking right?
 
Then I have his movies mixed up, the first script he sold was for a little over $1 million, the highest price ever paid at the time. I'll find out this weekend.
 
Randall_Oelerich said:
I do have two feature scripts written, one good (supernatural thriller), one I believe is great (romcom). But neither could be made on a low budget ($50k or less) like I imagine, so I can not use them for making an indie myself. My goal has been to write three good or better feature scripts and then get agency representation (i.e. having 3 scripts shows potential agents I am not a one trick pony act). I am working on a third feature script, but it too could not be done indie, as it (action-horror) takes place in the Amazon rainforest, ancient ruins, creature effects, etc. So one conclusion that is becoming crystal clear (though discussions here, which I really truly appreciate, thank you all so much) for indie filmmaking is that to have a decent chance of success (selling a finished indie film) the indie script must be great and K.I.S.S. style; I do not have such a script now, so the reality is I am putting a cart before a horse worrying over budget, a camera, cinemetography, etc.-- seems I need to first retreat back into writing and when I have the great K.I.S.S. script only then can I think about making it into a film. And perhaps another script I write that is good, but not great and KISS, might sell and then finance a great KISS script I have yet to write. Am I thinking right?
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Totally!

Focus on story telling and not the camera's your going to shoot it with, I have said it 100 times:

IF YOU CANNOT MAKE A GOOD MOVIE ON A DVX / HVX YOUR WASTING YOUR MONEY BUYING A RED OR BETTER CAMERA. ALL YOU WILL HAVE IN THE END IS A BAD MOVIE WITH MORE PIXELS!

STORYTELLING IS EVERYTHING!
 
Brandon Rice said:
Saw that there were a lot of Christian films distributed that were under an hour. 35-50 minutes.
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I notice this too, oddly enough this is another detraction from buying Christian films. I'm being charged the same amount of money for less. It's like always paying more for less. I do still want to see "Escape from Hell" though.

Patryk_Rebisz said:
I see lots of nickel&dimming here which is ok since we are talking about low budget filmmaking but people here should remember that unwise cuts will really cost you cold hard cash in the end:
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Yep. You said a mouthful. Also I find a lot of new folks don't factor transportation into their budgets. In Chicago it's not so bad because of the CTA and all day passes. Transportation could be $5 a day + cab fare if a cab is needed.

Zak Forsman said:
next year. I'm only attending AFM this year to learn the ins and outs of licensing content to foreign territories. but unlike most, I want to retain all north american rights. those are not being sold. i don't care if your magnolia pictures.
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Yep, this is real freedom.

-Nate
 
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Religious groups will consume media tailored to them in a way that will not relate to the industry at large. DVD movies, music CDs etc. get "recommended" (translation: marketed) at churches and synagogues by ministers, rabbis etc., and parishioners will buy them in (relative) droves. It's ideologically driven much more than the larger marketplace (obviously), so what would be an "odd man out" film at 50 minutes can sell without any problem to these groups. It's "preaching to the choir" marketing in a quite literal sense.
 
Zak Forsman said:
not disputing the point, but I thought I'd mention that Shane Black sold The Long Kiss Goodnight for $4 million, setting the bar in 1995. i'm sure someone has bested that by now. but again, not disputing the point you were making.
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Just to get the Shane Black trivia straight:
The $1.75 million he received for his screenplay for The Last Boy Scout (1991) was the highest to date in 1990. He then topped it when he sold the script to _The Long Kiss Goodnight (1996) _ for over $2 million a few years later.
 
TheMacB said:
Just to get the Shane Black trivia straight:
The $1.75 million he received for his screenplay for The Last Boy Scout (1991) was the highest to date in 1990. He then topped it when he sold the script to _The Long Kiss Goodnight (1996) _ for over $2 million a few years later.
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everything I read says $4 million for TLKG. in between those two, he got $1 million for last action hero.
 
Randall_Oelerich said:
So is it perhaps better then to just focus on writing and selling the scripts for indies, leave the indie filmmaking to the studios' indie divisions?
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I think you'll have a less hard time but you're totally dependent on someone buying your script. If it doesn't sale you get nothing. You can shoot a movie and do much more with it even if you just let people watch it for free.

-Nate
 
Randall_Oelerich said:
So is it perhaps better then to just focus on writing and selling the scripts for indies,...
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You need to figure out what you have a burning passion for and then just go do that.

Just look at what Faith Granger is doing and the results. She's making her feature about what she has a passion for and gathers people around her with a passion for the same thing. I'd hate to be a distributor trying to stand in her way. She'll leave tire marks all the way down their back!
 
craigbowman said:
You need to figure out what you have a burning passion for and then just go do that.

Just look at what Faith Granger is doing and the results. She's making her feature about what she has a passion for and gathers people around her with a passion for the same thing. I'd hate to be a distributor trying to stand in her way. She'll leave tire marks all the way down their back!
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This is generally the best way to go if you can do it. Also it makes you want to put forth the effort because you're doing something you love.

-Nate
 
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