Midtone noise in HPX170

Damn! I'm shocked over the difference in the blacks on the left side of the images.

Were both cameras at +12 db?
 
I saw that in the other video as well, the one without gain. The HPX170 actually looks better than the 200A in the pre production model. So either the settings weren't the same (I assume that the 170 didn't have master pedestal down far enough) or the Pre Production Model of the HPX170 was just better than the 200A as far as Dynamic Range goes.

These two images look the same and I would love for my HPX170 to look like that. It doesn't, though.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong with production model 170's and 200A's, I'm definitely sure now that the images aren't the same.
 
ChipG said:
Damn! I'm shocked over the difference in the blacks on the left side of the images.

Were both cameras at +12 db?
Click to expand...
Both were at +12dB. However, I'd doubt the master pedestal was equalized at that point, so that would account for the difference in black level there. The only thing this footage should be used for is to compare the amount of noise in the image at a full +12dB of gain.
 
Were both camera's black balanced right before these images?

On my monitor the HVXa's blacks have more noise.
 
Y'know, you may have a point, I don't remember the status of the black balance.

Grr. Another annoying little niggling detail that has to be checked off of a checklist before you do these multi-camera tests. Well, that, plus that footage was shot probably three months ago.
 
Barry_Green said:
Y'know, you may have a point, I don't remember the status of the black balance.

Grr. Another annoying little niggling detail that has to be checked off of a checklist before you do these multi-camera tests. Well, that, plus that footage was shot probably three months ago.
Click to expand...

Thanks for doing this stuff for us!

My head had come close to exploding several times when I ran my test this spring before tordado chasing with my hvx. I would set my black balance every morning. Dunno if the black balance will make a difference (possibility) but you know, it's always something :)
 
DM_RIDER,


The music video a few posts back...
how much color correction was done there?
the color saturation looks great, i see almost no grain.

Tell us about your 170 settings...
i am debating the purchase until we know its all fixed....
 
kapil said:
DM_RIDER,


The music video a few posts back...
how much color correction was done there?
the color saturation looks great, i see almost no grain.

Tell us about your 170 settings...
i am debating the purchase until we know its all fixed....
Click to expand...

I was shooting with the stock cine v scene file.

For CC, I pretty much just bumped the mids and whites a bit. This was rough though, I should have the whole video done by next week.
 
In Barry's clip the white cards that indicate which camera seem to show quite a bit more noise on the 170. On the other hand the 170 card looks a bit brighter too, which might contribute to the effect.

The grey background between the color/focus chart and the greyscale device also looks considerably cleaner on the 200a, although again it's slightly brighter on the 170.

My overall sense is that this comparison probably does illustrate an advantage for the 200a in terms of mid-tone noise.
 
Thanks for the uploads Barry!

On the 12dB the blacks for the 200a look cooler :)
But the noise is close enough for me to have a hard time picking which is noisier... sure the 200a looks way worse but that must be because of the pedestal being higher, right? After looking at it closer, and tying to consider the MP effect, I would guess the noise difference is so tiny... for me... that it won't be my concern.

Why is the color so different? I think you said you did white balance them.

Also, is the DNR at all different? Anyone check this out? I guess the answer will be a resounding NO, just thought I'd ask.
 
Well, had a 200A in my possession today and will have it again tomorrow. DEFINITELY NOT THE SAME.

But, will post video tomorrow after a job.

The 170 is definitely noisier and, strangely enough, the preset white balances aren't the same either.
 
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They are not the same, that's for sure. Calibrating them to look exactly the same has proven very difficult. But the differences... man... if what I'm seeing is right, I think all you folks who are talking about being "disappointed" in the 170 are in for a laugh assuming that what I'm seeing is actually what I think I'm seeing. I shot tons of footage and am blowing it up to 800% and obsessing over every pixel right now. More details when I'm certain about what it is I think I'm seeing. But no, I'm not prepared to say the 170 is noisier... heh.
 
Kholi said:
Well, had a 200A in my possession today and will have it again tomorrow. DEFINITELY NOT THE SAME.

The 170 is definitely noisier and, strangely enough, the preset white balances aren't the same either.
Click to expand...

Kholi,

I found the HVX200A to be plus green in preset compared to an HPX500, HDX900
and HPX170. I like the 170's preset better. What did you find?
 
I found the same. The HVX200A is just the slightest bit "greener", the HPX170 has more neutral color rendition. I had to tweak the image to try to get rid of it, and never got it to where I found it perfectly satisfactory. What's funny is that the 200A was way less green than the original 200! The 200 should look significantly greener than the 170.
 
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