Giving/Receiving Criticism

C

ConspiracyPenguin

Nosey Penguin
Thank you to Jack for posting this information last fest. It is very useful and I feel everyone can benefit from reading through it.

The JDS Disclaimer:

Jack Daniel Stanley said:
EDIT: Originally posted for LOVE FEST 02/08.

First off, this is more Jack the 9 fest vet talking to you rather than Jack the Mod.
So unlike some stickies, these are not rules so much as suggestions.

Suggestions vs. rules because we're all for freedom of expression. BUT, we also want people to have a good time and to encourage filmmakers.

So while you're still free to say "Your movie sucks" © Jeremy Hyler :grin:

... we can probably do a bit better. Remember this is a filmmaking community. :beer:

This guide has not come about due to a widespread problem with giving and receiving criticism,
but more to enhance the experience for filmmakers and fest participants of varying experience levels
(read: so you can learn from my mistakes) :)
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Giving

Giving

GIVING CRITICISM (COURTESY: JACK DANIEL STANLEY)

Your criticism is important. Saying what you don’t like about a movie or pointing out what could have been better is essential in the growth of the filmmaker.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GIVING CRITICISM AND DOING SOMETHING ELSE:
There’s no such thing as overly critical. But there is such a thing as rude.

If your criticism is peppered with “worst film ever” “the dumbest” “the most retarded” “absolutely atrocious” “completely horrible” “what the hell were you thinking dumbass?” Then you are probably coming from a less than constructive place, and not showing the proper respect for a real filmmaker, i.e. anyone that gets up of their Dunder and Miffilin and actually goes out and makes a film – we all know what an achievement that is and it warrants respect, lots of it.

Lots of hyperbole and negative adjectives, particularly absolutes like worst, and dumbest ever, are probably neither accurate nor necessary.

BE SPECIFIC
So you thought it sucked. Why? Saying you thought it sucked in no way helps the filmmaker or promotes an interesting discussion. If you just say it sucked how will they know what to fix next time? Try and offer information as to where, what and why: what specific elements at what moments, and why did they not work.

GOOD WITH THE BAD
There was nothing good about this movie. Really? Nothing? AT ALL? You can’t find one single thing the filmmaker did well or competently? Nothing. Wow you’re a very tough date.

If you have some hard knocks for the filmmaker why not mention at least ONE thing that was good. Not asking you to lie. But surely there is something if not subjectively (to your taste) then objectively that was good. Like great sound. Technical excellence. A nice dolly shot. That one incredible actor. The way one scene was blocked. … this isn’t about bullshi*. It’s about the fact that almost every film does something right and the filmmaker needs to hear that also.

JUST PRAISE
So you loved it. Great. If you all you have time for is “I loved it” then say that. Ideally it’s good to be specific with your praise just like your criticism. Telling them why you loved it will help them be a better filmmaker. BUT … don’t you dare not post because you don’t have time to write a bunch of stuff. While we encourage specificity and detail which will help the filmmaker make a better next film, still stop by and say you loved it if you did. That will help them to actually attempt the next film at all.

But again ideally try to be specific with your praise: what worked and why.

CONVINCING & DEBATING
Please. Do not get into convincing someone that they are wrong and you are right. If you have left your criticism and they are not responsive to it, move on. It's their thread and they don't have to agree with you. If you adhere to only one of these suggestions please make it this one. Don't go over and over things if it seems unwelcomed or if the filmmaker is unresponsive. State your criticism and move on. Be attentive to how receptive or not the filmmaker is to in depth discussion. If they are into it and it's a good discussion, great, if not, move on.

FINALLY
Try to be specific and helpful. Give a positive note when you can. Pretend you are in a room full of people with the filmmaker sitting on a stage. If you wouldn’t say it in that context don’t say it here.
 
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Receiving

Receiving

RECEIVING CRITICISM: (COURTESY: JACK DANIEL STANLEY)

Easy right? You just sit back and agree with the people who think you are a genius and tell the other folks they’re too dumb to understand your vision. Not quite. Take it from me ...

I’ve had fests that were the best experiences of my life and some much less so. The biggest factor was how I handled criticism and interacted with the posters.

You will have a better time, learn more, and look like a really cool balanced dude (or chick) even if you’re not, if you can follow some of this battle earned advice.


YOU DON’T HAVE TO RESPOND TO EVERY POST
As a much wiser Mod once told me (*cough* *cough* Isaac Brody) you don’t have to respond to every post. Some more combative posts may be better left ignored. For the posts which require a response and the ones you just feel a need to respond to … read on …

DEFENDING YOUR BABY/ GETTING INTO A FIGHT
In the book “The Ultimate Film Festival Survival Guide” (
1
1
1
1
link) the advice given to filmmakers at a festival talk back is to basically be funny and answer questions. DO NOT … do not get into defending your movie. If you defend your movie, you will only look … well … defensive … makes sense right? This doesn’t mean you hold your movie out at the end of your arm like a stinky diaper. You can stand by the choices you made. You can love your movie. You can think it’s perfect without ever defending it.

If you get a commenter that makes a general criticism about how stupid your ideas are, thank them for their feedback and move on. In fact the harsher and more inappropriate the criticism the more polite you should be.

AUDIENCE: “I’ve seen all of your movies and they all suck. You couldn’t write your way out of a paper bag. I wish I had the 1 minute of my life back I spent watching your movie. I had to stop it then before I barfed on my computer. Pathetic.”

FILMMAKER: “Wow. Thanks for taking the time to at least try to watch my film, lol, and for sharing your passionate comments. Sorry it wasn’t your cup of tea.”

ATTEMPTING TO INVALIDATE THEIR EXPERIENCE vs. HAVING A DISCUSSION.
So I said DO NOT defend. What I mean by this is don’t try to convince the poster that they are wrong. Even if their criticism is based on something you felt was out of your control or was the best you could do under the circumstances.

When the audience watches the film they don’t know and don’t care that the only take where the actor really cried was the one where an extra tripped and fell down in the background, so you had to decide if it was too distracting to see the mailman fall in the background or see the real emotion of the woman reading the letter he just delivered. They also don’t know that you only had one hour to shoot the scene and your monitor with enough resolution to see if she was crying or not broke that morning.

Sharing these behind the scenes limitations and compromises can be fine. But be careful. They can merge over into trying to convince someone that their experience isn’t valid because they don’t know what your choices were or what you had to go through to get the shot you had to use.

If this kind of discussion will be helpful then share it. But acknowledge the criticism as valid first especially if you agree with it. “I can see how you could say that. Unfortunately the only takes we had …” (don’t necessarily agree) or “D’oh. Yeah I hate that too. Unfortunately the only choices we had were …” (agree and it’s been bugging you too).

If you get the sense that the criticism is coming from someone that’s just trying to take the wind out of your sails, then ignore them or thank them and move on.

CONVINCING & DEBATING
If someone won't let up about something to the point it's annoying, i.e., posting over and over and or giving you unasked for lessons, try to ignore it. If you can't do that contact a Mod. Try not to take the bait.

FINALLY
Remember their experience is valid. You don’t have to respond to every post. Avoid an argument over why they are wrong or don’t understand. Explain or make excuses only if it seems like the discussion will be of benefit. The nastier or more personal they are, the more polite and grateful for their feedback you are.
 
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On a personal note: I plan on being very blunt and honest this fest. Reading through my comments from TimeFest I realize I candy coated the truth quite a bit (which I am sure was apparent to many of you) in an attempt at maintaining the kind, witty, flightless bird reputation I have developed. But I have decided that it is actually disrespectful to NOT be honest. So, instead of posting fluff and keeping my pro/con ratio in check I plan on giving the honest truth with constructive criticism where I can. I will try not to be rude about it, but I won't be overly nice either. I think that by following this guide, I will be able to provide a win-win for everyone.

We will see how I feel come comment time. :)
 
Excellent. DVXUser fests are very unique: most of our audience is us, which means we should get useful critiques like "your audio sucked", "lighting was totally off, did you white balance?" "what the heck were you thinking with that cut, bad editing there". I want my film to be totally ripped apart. I hope no one says things like "nice! loved it." You know my short could have been better. Tell me why. I want to learn.
 
Simon your film is awesome. Film of the year. 4 stars and thumbs up!! I haven't even seen it and I already like it. Are we good?
 
Saying "sucks" kind of defeats the purpose of not being rude IMO. There a 100 other ways to say suck. That word needs to go the way of "Awesome". I want my film to ripped apart as well. And I know it will be.
 
Your honest truth? Maybe it will be just your opinion. I've seen films I don't really like that others love. You can give good comments here without be rude. Already you plan on doing that,,,,bad way to start out.
What is the name of your film? I'm sure people will want to comment on it after you are "blunt" with theirs. LOL



ConspiracyPenguin said:
On a personal note: I plan on being very blunt and honest this fest. Reading through my comments from TimeFest I realize I candy coated the truth quite a bit (which I am sure was apparent to many of you) in an attempt at maintaining the kind, witty, flightless bird reputation I have developed. But I have decided that it is actually disrespectful to NOT be honest. So, instead of posting fluff and keeping my pro/con ratio in check I plan on giving the honest truth with constructive criticism where I can. I will try not to be rude about it, but I won't be overly nice either. I think that by following this guide, I will be able to provide a win-win for everyone.

We will see how I feel come comment time. :)
Click to expand...
 
Zim said:
Your honest truth? Maybe it will be just your opinion. I've seen films I don't really like that others love. You can give good comments here without be rude. Already you plan on doing that,,,,bad way to start out.
What is the name of your film? I'm sure people will want to comment on it after you are "blunt" with theirs. LOL
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:grin: That's the thing. I am here for friends, not enemies, but I think people would benefit from my TRUE thoughts rather than some fluffy, well-packaged ones, you know? I don't plan on saying "Wow, that was the worst ****ing piece I've seen so far. Sell your camera you worthless **** face!" :D More like, "Here is what I thought could have been better and why and I am not going to confuse you by prefacing my criticism with a contradictory compliment." :)

And I didn't make a film this time, so neener, neener, neener! :2vrolijk_08:

NOTE: After re-reading my original comment, I realize that could have been easily misunderstood. I will be relying heavily on this guide. I am NOT going to be rude, I am going to be NICE. But I will try to also be helpful. Films are subjective in that, like you said, some people will like them and some people will not. So, instead of saying what I feel like it is a fact, I will be clear that it is just MY OPINION. I think that's all any of us can really do.
 
ConspiracyPenguin said:
On a personal note: I plan on being very blunt and honest this fest. Reading through my comments from TimeFest I realize I candy coated the truth quite a bit (which I am sure was apparent to many of you) in an attempt at maintaining the kind, witty, flightless bird reputation I have developed. But I have decided that it is actually disrespectful to NOT be honest. So, instead of posting fluff and keeping my pro/con ratio in check I plan on giving the honest truth with constructive criticism where I can. I will try not to be rude about it, but I won't be overly nice either. I think that by following this guide, I will be able to provide a win-win for everyone.

We will see how I feel come comment time. :)
Click to expand...

Still more honest???? You prefered the green rain boots instead of the red shoes in our film last fest. :D
 
filthrich said:
Saying "sucks" kind of defeats the purpose of not being rude IMO. There a 100 other ways to say suck.
Click to expand...

For example...

Your film blows.
Your film licks donkey ****.
Your film is crap.
Your film is a waste.
Your film is garbage.
Your film is a piece of shi*.
Your film isn't worth the tape it was recorded on to.

You get the point.
icon12.gif
 
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