FAST SDHC Memory for the EX1

[GuyB]

This is pretty funny - Amazon UK now list the Kensington 7 in 1 adapter as a "frequently bought together" item coupled with the Sandisk Ultra II 15mbs SDHC card, and offer a special deal for the two ! :thumbup:

Paul

that is funny, however it seems there isn't actually a discount, if you add the prices of the reader and the card individually, it equals the same amount as the two together.... The 'discount' is only the amount of what they claim the 'list price' is, which is an arbitary number they plucked from who knows where.

 

[BradCube]

no you dont. When you overcrank, the camera allocates the data rate based on the playback frame rate, not capture frame rate. So if you shoot 24p at 48fps, it will record 70Mbps so that each 24frames (which become one second of playback) is allocated 35Mb. This way you maintain the same quality WRT compression as standard shooting.

I hope this helps

Ahh, that's brilliant! Thanks so much. That makes me even more excited about the camera!

One more question then, what is the max overcrank you can push out on the camera with SxS? Is it 2x the standard framerate? Ie 24p = maximum 48fps overcrank? Or can it be pushed all the way to 60fps?

Oh, and by the way, I've now ordered my ex-1 and should have it on monday. I have a Kensignton 7-in-1 and 2x Sandisk Ultra II 16gb's on their way. Woot! Plus, I've just finished buying and downloading CS4 (which is fantastic) so I should be all set for editing. Happy days!

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[GuyB]

One more question then, what is the max overcrank you can push out on the camera with SxS? Is it 2x the standard framerate? Ie 24p = maximum 48fps overcrank? Or can it be pushed all the way to 60fps?

In 720p you can go all the way to 60p with SxS, in 1080p you can go to 30p and in 1080i there is no overcranking ability in the camera.

KxS could probably handle all 1080p overcranking at this only goes to 30p anyway, its the 720p modes we reference in saying KxS is limited to about 40fps.

 

[Spartacus]

In 720p you can go all the way to 60p with SxS, in 1080p you can go to 30p and in 1080i there is no overcranking ability in the camera.

KxS could probably handle all 1080p overcranking at this only goes to 30p anyway, its the 720p modes we reference in saying KxS is limited to about 40fps.

So is 40fps save, or is it where the problems start? Any clips with 40fps online? :dankk2:

 

[GuyB]

fairly, if it has a problem it will throw a media error and stop recording, and you will likely have to 'restore media' and loose the end of the clip it failed on.

 

[Stevet]

So is 40fps save, or is it where the problems start? Any clips with 40fps online? :dankk2:

The bottom line, why use the KxS for overcrank. Just throw in your SxS for this. Slo-mo is usually a very small percentage of footage captured.

Use the KxS for normal HQ footage. It works great.

 

[GuyB]

agreed totally

 

[JANNW10]

I really like 16GB anyway. When recording in HQ mode, each card is pretty much like a DV tape in length. If I am shooting for SD I know I have a great HD master to downconvert to SD and I can output each card to one DV tape, no messing around with splitting it into chunks etc (I do a fair bit of sub contracting and not many of them are ready for HD yet).

I assume you're downconverting and outputting SD via the SDI port?

I don't have a deck with either SDI or component in..
Don't suppose there's anyway to put SD down the firewire cable?

thanks

j

 

[GuyB]

I assume you're downconverting and outputting SD via the SDI port?

I don't have a deck with either SDI or component in..
Don't suppose there's anyway to put SD down the firewire cable?

thanks

j

Actually its really quite easy.

1: When archiving the 16GB card (SxS or KxS) copy the BPAV folder to its only folder (eg CARD1, CARD2 etc). [This prevents Clip browser joining split clips from one card to another back together and preventing you from fitting it all on one tape]

2: Use Sony Clip Browser 2 to convert each BPAV folder to SD (DV AVI), once again keep them seperate from other cards, I use CARD1\SD, CARD2\SD etc

3: Use whatever tool you like to go out to tape with these SD files. I use ScenelyserLive to record the complete folder out to tape via firewire (to a little Sony HC7 camera).

No SDI or analogue needed. The only hassle is you have to batch convert each card seperately, you can't just send the lot off in one hit and go to bed.

 

[BradCube]

In 720p you can go all the way to 60p with SxS, in 1080p you can go to 30p and in 1080i there is no overcranking ability in the camera.

KxS could probably handle all 1080p overcranking at this only goes to 30p anyway, its the 720p modes we reference in saying KxS is limited to about 40fps.

So my next question is then, why does the resolution make a difference to the framerate we can overcrank at? Don't both resolutions run at the same bitrate?

 

[GuyB]

So my next question is then, why does the resolution make a difference to the framerate we can overcrank at? Don't both resolutions run at the same bitrate?

The EX1/3 can only record up to 1080 30p end of storey. You can overcrank to 60p with 720 because the camera can record natively up to 720 60p as well.

I am guessing it is to do with data rate and processing power requirements to computer 1080 at 60p. I bet 35Mbps just isn't enough for 1080 50/60p to maintain the artefact free nature of XDCAM EX the processor in the camera isn't able to process that many pixels. So rather than offer a higher data rate and higher end processing capabilities they limited these models to 1080 30p.

I am sure in the future 1080 60p will come, and then eventually 120p etc but encoders probably need to improve in power consumption and process power abilities, and the marketing tools need to agree that it isn't offering too much too soon (they always need to keep a reason for us to upgrade)

 

[Stevet]

GuyB is right.

720 overcrank to 60FPS is a around 100mbps datarate. This is the datarate needed to maintain 35mbps HQ playback. Due to the high resolution 1920x1080 verses 1280x720, 1080 overcrank to 60P would need a LOT higher datarate during capture to maintain its 35mbps HQ during playback.

 

[MitchLewis]

So your saying you can't overcrank (60p) when shooting 1080 resolution? Even on a Sony SxS card? (sorry, I don't have a EX3 yet)

 

[Sumfun]

The maximum frame rate that the EX1 or EX3 can record is 30p in 1080 resolution, and 60p in 720 resolution.

 

[MitchLewis]

Thank you. I didn't know that. (we don't have ours yet)

 

[arkay]

Overcranking

Overcranking

Okay so I had a couple of the tiny 4GB Sony MemoryStick Pro-HG Duo cards sitting here (I use them in my Sony GV-HD700 HDV deck to grab stills for clients) and I thought, hmmm. Wonder if I can record on those babies. Stuck one in the i-dot-connect reader (I don't have the Kensington, so do your own tests) and it said "format?" I said well this oughta be good. The 4GB gives 18minutes at HQ. I recorded some and it was fine. I thought hmmm. Wonder if it'll overcrank. Shot some 720/30p at 60 fps and it crapped out after 30 seconds. So I took it down to 50fps and guess what? Filled up the card with that and no errors. Worked at 56fps. Also works in 24p at 48fps. These 4GB cards go for around 50 bucks. The 8GB around $75, and the 16GB around $125. I only have the 4GB so can't vouch for the others. But I am stoked. AND they ALMOST allow the door to close on the EX1. I may take one to the grinding wheel and shave a half a mm off. I'll be testing a 16GB when I can find one.

 

[GuyB]

It is interesting to hear of other memory formats work as well, and its not totally suprising given compatibility of recognition is more likly dependant on the reader and compatibility of performance is more dependant on the card.

Fortunately, the SD cards are much cheaper than the MemoryStick cards and overcranking is really not that common for most users.

 

[lahoozaa]

two questions:

A. This does or doesn't work when recording in 1080/60i

B. I went to best buy and they had a sandisk version of this 7 in 1 express card media reader for 21 dollars, does anyone know if this version will work with the EX1? It's only on sale till tomorrow and I just took my cam in for the battery fix.

 

[PerroneFord]

A. Yes.

B. No, the Sandisk reader does not work.

two questions:

A. This does or doesn't work when recording in 1080/60i

B. I went to best buy and they had a sandisk version of this 7 in 1 express card media reader for 21 dollars, does anyone know if this version will work with the EX1? It's only on sale till tomorrow and I just took my cam in for the battery fix.

 

[Carl Marxx]

Lahoozaa, I bought two of them and took them back. They don't work in the EX-1 (or EX-2.) Return them, and get your money back!