HMC150 questions answered...
- Thread starter Barry_Green
- Start date
Yes it is supposed to be very sharp for a consumer camera. There is a review of it at camcorderinfo.com.
I'd say that at a time when anyone can afford a super hi-res camera, the only thing that will make professional video producers & film-makers stand apart from consumers making home video is what & how we shoot!
In fact I look forward to the end of the never-ending discussions of this camera is better than that and a move toward discussions on improving composition & story telling :thumbup:
In fact I look forward to the end of the never-ending discussions of this camera is better than that and a move toward discussions on improving composition & story telling :thumbup:
Hidef1080
Well-known member
It's like that in the still photography world too with the Canon vs. Nikon and sensor size and mega pixels...
At the end of the day no one can look at a photograph and say “oh yeah, that was shot on the new 12mp, full frame Nikon.”
What people can tell you is “that's a great image” or “Hey, that's a nice snapshot!”
Thomas Lew
Well-known member
One thing about that... if you have a good enough professional camera nobody can judge your video based upon the type of camera you used... only your creativity.
It's the "how we shoot" that needs to get better. All these new cameras image quality is so good, we are really splitting hairs over which is better image quality wise.
I think the ease of use can still be greatly improved. I don't even see an end to discussing which camera is better from the standpoint of which tool is easiest to use and how to use it.
To me the HMC150 is not a user friendly camera. But that is coming from a perfectionist who is in a hurry to learn this camera properly. That's the purpose of this forum, to learn from others the equipment end of the picture. For that, there is no better place than here.
manglerBMX
Veteran
its a smaller lens than the hvx. same diameter as the dvx, but different bayonet mount. pretty sure that it and the hpx170 have the same bayonet mounts.
Yes, that is what I was told. Soon we will start to see accessories for this bayonet mount. Personally, I hope Chrosziel is busy working on this
rogar-Love(DBG):
stephenvv
Well-known member
Hmmm. I'm think I'm keeping my DVX100 for the time being and borrowing/renting HD cams when I must have HD.
Just downloaded all the footage here - thanks to all for posting. But this camera is still very underwhelming. It has less resolution than a number of sub $1000 HD camera including the HV20 et al. It is cleaner noise wise in low light, shadows than the HVX but not noticeably than many cheapo cams.
The form factor and controls, balance and weight are appealing (except for the AC3 audio - that bites). But even the 720p footage ain't breath taking and the performance with the raw clips on a 2.6 Ghz Dual Core desktop, especially the 1080p, is crappy, even in the latest Vegas.
My quadcore 3 Ghz does okay but still sluggish at best quality. And the 1080p seems a cruel joke - uprezzing the 720p looks identical and no change in resolution to the 1080p clips using the provided footage. But the 1080p is much slower to work with. Seems shooting 720p and uprezzing in Vegas is a no-brainer.
I can't say I care for either Panny's 3-CCD HD tech nor AVC HD for post.
I think cams like this better hope a DSLR-base video camera with decent controls and audio with HV20 like rolling shutter is not released soon as there will no reason to spend $4k on fixed lens, barely 720p cam.
Ironically, Panasonic's own Lumix G HD might be just that camera.
Just downloaded all the footage here - thanks to all for posting. But this camera is still very underwhelming. It has less resolution than a number of sub $1000 HD camera including the HV20 et al. It is cleaner noise wise in low light, shadows than the HVX but not noticeably than many cheapo cams.
The form factor and controls, balance and weight are appealing (except for the AC3 audio - that bites). But even the 720p footage ain't breath taking and the performance with the raw clips on a 2.6 Ghz Dual Core desktop, especially the 1080p, is crappy, even in the latest Vegas.
My quadcore 3 Ghz does okay but still sluggish at best quality. And the 1080p seems a cruel joke - uprezzing the 720p looks identical and no change in resolution to the 1080p clips using the provided footage. But the 1080p is much slower to work with. Seems shooting 720p and uprezzing in Vegas is a no-brainer.
I can't say I care for either Panny's 3-CCD HD tech nor AVC HD for post.
I think cams like this better hope a DSLR-base video camera with decent controls and audio with HV20 like rolling shutter is not released soon as there will no reason to spend $4k on fixed lens, barely 720p cam.
Ironically, Panasonic's own Lumix G HD might be just that camera.
I have a JVC HD 200 that is only 720P and it cut's nicely with my Canon A1 & HV30. (Everyone knows that Canons have the sharpest overall image.) I think the reason lower native res Panasonic cameras appeal to people is because they seem to have a nice image that is difficult to describe other than to say it's the "Panasonic" look which so many people try to emulate on their Canon, JVC & Sony cameras.
For me personally I'm going with this cam because it will bring back the ease of use & familiarity I so loved when I had my DVXs, also it is probably the lightest prosumer camera that I can fly hand-held without having arms like the governor of California
For me personally I'm going with this cam because it will bring back the ease of use & familiarity I so loved when I had my DVXs, also it is probably the lightest prosumer camera that I can fly hand-held without having arms like the governor of California
stephenvv
Well-known member
I can see the JVC HD 200 cutting nicely with 1080p but I'm not sure about this cam. Plus the editing performance penalty is considerable until we have $200 8-core 4 Ghz chips.
Personally, I'm going to wait and see what Scarlet and other DSLR cams turn out in the next few months. And for my HD shoot in two weeks, I'm going to rent an EX1/3
Personally, I'm going to wait and see what Scarlet and other DSLR cams turn out in the next few months. And for my HD shoot in two weeks, I'm going to rent an EX1/3
Alan Bradley
Well-known member
the avchd editing issues are a snag indeed. i have a dual core intel mac so it's fine for me.
take it for what it's worth, I have owned or still own the hvx200a, EX1, HV20's, DVX100b, XL2 blah blah blah...and this camera kicks arse. i like it because of the media being so cheap. honestly it feels like my dvx100b on crac....er alot of red bull.
great camera. all of them are. choose what's right for you, ur computer, ur bank account.
PS- GREAT camera.
take it for what it's worth, I have owned or still own the hvx200a, EX1, HV20's, DVX100b, XL2 blah blah blah...and this camera kicks arse. i like it because of the media being so cheap. honestly it feels like my dvx100b on crac....er alot of red bull.
great camera. all of them are. choose what's right for you, ur computer, ur bank account.
PS- GREAT camera.
Hidef1080
Well-known member
Agreed 1000% plus 1.
I just received my 150 today and all I can say is "wow".
When you have the camera and can set it for your own shooting style it shows a lot.
I like/needed the test footage posted here [thanks all for the time and work] but when you can see it and work with it first hand you'll see how great the images are. IMO.
I only have an FX-1 so I can't talk about any other but the 150 cost less than my FX-1 did, produces far better images than my FX-1 does and the SD vs. MiniDV... SD is much better for me.
In the end however you have go with what works for you but this is without question HD.
I must go shoot now.
rogar-Love(DBG):
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mcsmooth
Well-known member
I don't have an HVX, but it looks like the scene files are different for the 150. Most importantly, there is no frame rate setting. The camera stays in its recording mode regardless of the scene file. You need to go into the recording menu to change the "recording mode" which has the different resolutions, framerates, and quality modes. I went ahead and tried changing this setting to different values in the user file with no luck. It simply ignores the value if not recognized. I tried quite a few above the highest setting, so unless there is some hidden higher value, it is a dead end.Anybody tried the frame rate hack yet?
I dare you guys...
At the top of the user and scene files are these lines:
Ver 1.00-00
AG-HMC150P
SYSTEM FREQ:59.94Hz
So I felt the need to try changing the model number and frequency to a combination of settings like AG-HMC151E, 50Hz, etc just to see if I might find something. No luck there. When it sees something it isn't expecting, it says "illegal file format". Most likely the firmware (or some form of hardware ID) is different for each of the models and expects to see those lines above match or it bails out.
Doesn't look promising so far, but it never did considering the codec was only designed for a few standard rates. 25 and 50 could be possible, but with the different timings, that might require a different clock crystal built in? Panasonic would probably need to develop a new feature for other frame rates to ever work with AVCHD. I see two possibilities:
1) Frames are recorded into an existing frame rate, like 12 frames put into 24fps, and the extras are to be dropped by the NLE. With the exception of perfect divisions (like 12/24), these files would probably be useless with any players or NLE's unless software was updated specifically for it.
2) They record to the files at a different speed. So to get 12fps, it could simply take twice as long to fill up the frames. Then the file would play back as you intended to record it. This actually would make a lot more sense. Us DVX/HVX users have it beat into our head to, lets say, record 60fps so we can make it slow mo in post. Why not just have the camera record a 24p file from the start at 2/5 the speed? Lots of possibilities there, most importantly > 60fps
But hey, I'm not complaining, I was already 99% sure there would not be a way to get other frame rates... I'm just having a ton of fun with the new toy and trying everything out.
As I'm now stocking up on memory cards & batteries, I have a question that hopefully our Panasonic reps here could answer and it concerns the batteries for the 150:
Is there a difference between the commonly available VW-VBG260 and the VW-VBG260PPK battery specified in the HMC150 brochure?
In other words can we use the same VW-VBG260 battery that is used in the Panasonic HDC-SD9 / HDC-HS9 / HDC-SX5 / SDR-H280 / VDR-D50 / NV-GS330 / NV-GS90 or is the VW-VBG260PPK battery really different?
Perhaps one of our new 150 owners has one of the Panasonic consumer cams mentioned above they could try it and let the rest of us know? :dankk2:
Is there a difference between the commonly available VW-VBG260 and the VW-VBG260PPK battery specified in the HMC150 brochure?
In other words can we use the same VW-VBG260 battery that is used in the Panasonic HDC-SD9 / HDC-HS9 / HDC-SX5 / SDR-H280 / VDR-D50 / NV-GS330 / NV-GS90 or is the VW-VBG260PPK battery really different?
Perhaps one of our new 150 owners has one of the Panasonic consumer cams mentioned above they could try it and let the rest of us know? :dankk2:
I'm pretty sure, it's nothing but a flag in the firmware of the cam that differentiates it from the 170 family on that level. So basically there must be a hack. Have patience until someone finds out.
Anybody out there who can readout the firmware of both famlies and find out which line of code to hack?
ilauzirika
Boring Senior Member
grrrrrrrr....................... it looks like my camera is still in the shop cause they needed a identification of mine.... a bank statement or someething like that........grrrr......... and they couldn't get on my earlier cause my first sales represntant went on holiday two days ago............. I want my camera.......
I think whichever manufacturer comes out with a camera that is as "hackable" as the Sony PS2 game console will have a cult following on their hands
It is far cheaper to make one generic full featured core but only make certain model dependant features available. Electronics repairers have known this for years - take TV/VCR remote controls for example; sometimes all that is different between some models is that a different face plate has been used and the unnecessary buttons removed!! Nowadays it's even easier because everything is software/firmware controlled
