The end of 35mm adapers and hv20s....

Yep, very good question. The fact is that this is Nikon's first foray into the video market. They don't have high end video cameras to protect so they can put high end sensors in their first attempt and create poweful cameras at a price nobody else might be able to beat. If they are able to improve on the D90 and create high end afordable and reliable motion capture cameras they will not only kill the 35mm adapter industry but mabe a few video camera manufacturers in the process.
In regards to the sensor, they already manufacture those by the tons for their DSLRs so the economies of scale clearly apply here, undoubtely making them less expensive to make.
 
Is a DSLR sensor different from a video sensor?

And my last question, someone on here said that the D90 down-samples the video images into 720p, not cropping the sensor. I'm confused on that one as well because to downsample wouldn't you need to scan an image, re-compress and then record? Why would nikon make their camera do more work to produce a smaller, lesser quality video when they could just record the uncompressed image raw straight out of the sensor?

Excuse my amateurish questions, but the DSLR world is completely new to me
 
Mosin said:
Why if this has been possible all along (to simply record the live view feed thats been around for a few years now) did we still see camera's with triple the price for only 1/3" and 2/3" chips?

Doesn't the D90 mean that this technology was not only possible all along but it was actually there (just missing a way to record?)
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Just my two cents: Live view existed before, but at a frame rate of 15 fps. Now Nicon improved that framerate to 24 fps. This produces filmlike movements but also an (probably, for what we know) extreme rolling shutter. The RED camera for example reads out the image of its CMOS sensor 60 times a second. It's probable, but not sure, that the Nicon will read out the image of the sensor only 24 times a second. Thus there is more rolling shutter. Higher framerates would mean higher data transfer and more heating. No doubt we will see photographic cameras with nealry perfect film output within a relative short time. But until then you better cosider cameras like the Nicon D90 as quite limited tools.
 
Makes perfect sense I guess, but still, if 15 fps on a sensor that big was possible without trouble, 1/3" and 2/3" sensors that could shoot higher fps just seem a bit exaggerated (Price wise) IMO

Thanks Joe
 
stoiqa said:
09/07/2008 release date on CC

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/Sear...r&keyword=d90&searchSection=All&go.x=0&go.y=0
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What to do, what to do? I've actually been following the D90 rumors for a while and saw it when it briefly appeared on the CC website a week ago. I thought about trying to pre-order it then, but I wasn't sure if it would even go through and then they pulled the webpage.

This time I'm sure the pre-order is for real, but $1300 is a chunk of change for something so untested and still unknown. I've been looking to get a DSLR anyway, but I'm still in the camp of people who thinks that this is just the beginning.

I think I'll wait.

Unless I don't.

CONFLICTED!!!!! :crybaby:
 
Originally Posted by ryan patrick o'hara
yet to be even determined because chase jarvis proves he can't shoot video worth his ass)



Just like you have proved you can't shoot stills to save your azz !!!!

frisco
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
So please, please, as exciting as this is.... it's simply... at most, an HV20 and 35mm adapter hidden in a good photography camera. It's not an HVX, it's not anything as such. Just a glimpse of a cool future.

PS: Avenger... do I know you?! Just seen you are from Savannah! Are you SCAD alumn?
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If it matches the Hv20 quality I'm more than sold! The thing is that so far it didn't really seem to come to that. When I watch Xh-A1 footage on my 46' HDTV it looks just perfect. When I watch HV20 footage I see some artifacts. When I watch D90 footage I see a lot of artifacts. The difference didn't look so obvious when I first watched the videos on vimeo, which got me really excited.
 
frisco said:
Originally Posted by ryan patrick o'hara
yet to be even determined because chase jarvis proves he can't shoot video worth his ass)



Just like you have proved you can't shoot stills to save your azz !!!!

frisco
Click to expand...

haha, I think I have a fan. I would like to encourage frisco to send me a PM to fully understand what is meant by this. You've peaked my curiosity.


rawfa said:
If it matches the Hv20 quality I'm more than sold! The thing is that so far it didn't really seem to come to that. When I watch Xh-A1 footage on my 46' HDTV it looks just perfect. When I watch HV20 footage I see some artifacts. When I watch D90 footage I see a lot of artifacts. The difference didn't look so obvious when I first watched the videos on vimeo, which got me really excited.
Click to expand...

I think at BEST, this could look like an Hv20 with and adapter. Obviously best case scenario, and... yet to be tested. Plus have we even had one completely fresh off the card file? I think all that vimeo stuff had been wrapped in another codec before we had gotten it.
 
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Sounds pretty typical of RED. They seem to like to announce products YEARS in advance of when they will actually be available. "Specs subject to change" "We are the revolution" I honestly hate all of the "shot on RED" hype.

One good thing about a company that stupidly releases details on a product they have in development means that there will be lots of competition for them. I'd personally love to see a show-down between Nikon and RED. Given the fact that Nikon is years ahead of RED in the business as a trusted camera maker... I'd buy a Nikon digital cinematography camera over RED - even at twice the price.

GO NIKON - way to shake up "The Revolution". haha.
 
rawfa said:
When I watch D90 footage I see a lot of artifacts. The difference didn't look so obvious when I first watched the videos on vimeo, which got me really excited.
Click to expand...

Do you have any original source material ? (direct from the D90) - the 720p footage on Vimeo you can download is not M-Jpeg, so I suspect it has been through another stage of compression (?)
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
I think at BEST, this could look like an Hv20 with and adapter.
Click to expand...

The D90 is likely to be better than my trusty HV30/SG Pro in many regards.


Edge to edge sharpness hard to come close to with a 35mm adaptor.

An absolute lack of vignetting which is - in varying degrees - present on the majority of DOF adaptors.

Zero light loss that is common on all DOF adaptors. (less need for super-fast lenses)

Zero grain issues at high shutter speeds, not uncommon on DOF adaptors.

Low-light shooting that is likely to put it - quite simply - in another class to the HV30.

Flip module (with additional light loss) ? No need !

4:4:4 v 4:2:0 (along with DOF making it superb for green screen work) - even at lower MJpeg quality we are still in 4:2:2 territory - the HV30 cannot record anything above 4:2:0.

M-Jpeg = no i frame compression :) bigger, but temporally better quality files. With fast motion scenes MJpeg will always beat HDV.

I am sure there are quite a few other points I have missed, but it is enough to say that 'I suspect' the D90 is likely to be far superior in some regards.
 
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Cinema-style lenses for the Nikon D-90 maybe; P+S Technik 35-digital lenses. They are basically the Zeiss ZF series
lenses re-housed with the follow-focus/iris gears, markings, etc. needed for professional film production.

These lenses keep the original F-mount,
theoretically they'll fit the D-90 possibly. The lenses are all manual too!

http://www.pstechnik.de/en/optics-lensset.php

Something like these are perfect for renting when you need absolute quality and control.


Michael Pappas
http://www.Myspace.com/PappasArts
Arrfilms@hotmail.com

PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms
http://www.PappasArts.com
CONTACT VIA AOL INSTANT MESSENGER
AT { PAPPASARTS2 }
 
Interesting thought:

Why is it that when a small American company tries to make an affordable digital cinema camera, they get flogged.

But when a multi-billion dollar slr enterprise makes video a possibility, they are received with rejoicing.

I dont understand it.
 
RED saw this new type of camera coming and they pushed their project as fast as they could. Still not sure if they were fast enough. Always respect for the brave!
 
hunter richards said:
Interesting thought:

Why is it that when a small American company tries to make an affordable digital cinema camera, they get flogged.

But when a multi-billion dollar slr enterprise makes video a possibility, they are received with rejoicing.

I dont understand it.
Click to expand...

Because RED has that cheesy, used-car-salesmen f*cker Ted whatever as it's spokesman. They come off as knowitalls, and as much as RED is a cool concept... it isn't really for the Indie filmmaker as they claim. It's expensive... if Nikon's D90 works "ok" for independent filmmaking, it only costs $1000 and will be available to virtually anyone.

Filmmaking is what you make of it, and your equipment is never as good as how you present a story - but this at least gives everyone a fair shot.

Plus, Nikon doesn't really have a "face" - and if I have to watch one more video with that cheesy sob from Red waving his hands around like the Samuel Adams guy... I'm going to vomit.

Also, RED ONE weighs about 30lbs with everything on it... aka heavy! Something like this would give you the ability to look professional - while letting you keep your crew sizes small.
 
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Maybe Red should consider putting a Nikon mount on the Scarlet instead of a fixed lens! That'd be a great FU to Nikon. ;-)
 
hunter richards said:
Why is it that when a small American company tries to make an affordable digital cinema camera, they get flogged.
Click to expand...

I have seen quite a bit of criticism of RED, I have never seen it mentioned that is because they are an American company.

The logical fallacy Cum hoc ergo propter hoc (translates roughly as 'with this, therefore because of this') comes to mind.

No one is 'flogging' RED because they are 'small' or 'American', the criticism (at least as far as I have seen it) has been unambiguous.

I would say that quite the opposite is the general rule of thumb, a small independent or family owned business (and if you are American - a non-foreign company) will always be given the benefit of the doubt over and above the corporate behemoth.
 
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