Would you like the HPX170 to be PAL/NTSC switchable?

[CW-35]

Any idea what the turnaround time for the upgrade to PAL will be? I am guessing that means buying the camera & then shipping it back to Panasonic for the upgrade & waiting for its return?

I would love to buy this camera (in lieu of an EX1) but I have a shoot in Europe in early October....

 

[puredrifting]

I bet that most of those who were begging and sweating for it will gladly fork over $300.00 for the capability.

Cool stuff!

Dan

 

[longshanks]

As a still photographer, I will say that in still cameras, CMOS is better than CCDs. I was on the Corrado set, shooting some BTS photos with my Nikon (a CCD camera) and the set photographer, Ed, was shooting with his CMOS Canon. When I look at the images that we both shot, same room, camera, available light, his images have a better color and contrast quality. Our cameras cost about the same and the lenses we were using were similar. Part of it is the digital processing engine in the camera but a large part of it is the CMOS.

I don't think the CMOS chip itself is inherently bad, it just becomes not so great when paired with a rolling shutter as the EX-1 and the RED have done.

As far as Sony, they are not my favorite either, but they do make some good products. I have come to the realization that the perfect camera would be a hybrid of the best features of the HVX combined with the best features of the EX-1. HVX has killer look and colorimetry, contrast, P2/DVCProHD. If you could combine all of that with the EX-1 lens, lcd and depth of field gauge with 1/2 CCDs, you would have the best sub $10k camera made, by far.

Dan

Being a Panisonic fan myself I would have to agree with you Dan. But from what others are saying, including friends who have actually compared the HVX and EX1 side by side, color rendering and picture quality in the EX1 seem to be better. Check out this article comparing the two cameras:

http://techthoughts.org/2008/01/16/sony-pmw-ex1-vs-panasonic-hvx-200-easy-choice/

 

[Everts]

My understanding is that the upgrade is $300. They put it out at a lower price point ($300 less than the HVX200) for those who don't need the capability, and for those who do, well, it's basically $5995.

(plus, of course, street price is at least $500 less than that already).

But, yeah, we got it!

Yes we do,
Thanks Jan for your efforts.

........Now new features for the HPX-170a: 2/3 ccds and 120 frames per second @ 720p ntsc.:beer:

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

Check out this article comparing the two cameras:

http://techthoughts.org/2008/01/16/sony-pmw-ex1-vs-panasonic-hvx-200-easy-choice/

IF you do a search on this site you will read the reactions of HVX200 owners that seem to find the Pair of Hands comparison to be somewhat flawed. I thought that when I looked at it as I too have had both cameras in my hands and I know I have seen much better out of the HVX than what is protrayed in the comparison.

Best,

Jan

 

[Justyn]

WOW.. so for 300 bucks more, it'll shoot both? That's some darn good news if it's the case. Do you get anything else coupled with the upgrade? Could this be done at anytime or just an introductory offer?

 

[puredrifting]

Being a Panisonic fan myself I would have to agree with you Dan. But from what others are saying, including friends who have actually compared the HVX and EX1 side by side, color rendering and picture quality in the EX1 seem to be better. Check out this article comparing the two cameras:

http://techthoughts.org/2008/01/16/sony-pmw-ex1-vs-panasonic-hvx-200-easy-choice/

Hi Longshanks:

I was in Scotland last year, shooting a doc on the life of William Wallace so unlike most Americans, at least I know who he was ;-)

Picture quality is not an easy thing to quantify. I too shoot with both cams on a daily basis. The Sony is without a doubt a much sharper camera than the HVX, but as far as colorimetry, my vote goes to the HVX. I have gone through all of the menu items and studied the 3 hour Vortex instructional DVD on the EX-1 and no matter how I set up the EX-1, I like the colors and contrast much better on the HVX.

I don't think you would go wrong buying either cam, they are both good but very different.

Dan

 

[Jim Simon]

I don't think the CMOS chip itself is inherently bad, it just becomes not so great when paired with a rolling shutter as the EX-1 and the RED have done.

I don't think you have any choice. The 'rolling shutter' phenomenon is a result of CMOS chips scanning from top to bottom in sequence. It can't be helped. Where as a CCD will snap the entire frame all at once. The reason you don't see this effect with stills is because the most obvious cause of the rolling shutter effect, the flash, will be fully on for the duration of the scan. Not always so with video, however.

 

[Jim Simon]

I have to say I'm surprised at the poll results. Do that many users shoot (and edit) internationally that you'd need both formats?

 

[puredrifting]

I have to say I'm surprised at the poll results. Do that many users shoot (and edit) internationally that you'd need both formats?

Nah, HVX Users are just greedy bastards that expect the world for free and badmouth anyone who doesn't give it to them ;-0

It's just like the thread that was devoted entirely to whiners whining about the lack of DRS in non 60 frame modes on the HPX-170. They are complaining about a feature that they have never used on a camera they have never seen. Amazing. And only on DVX User. Jan must have some good laughs at the bar after work.

Dan

 

[CW-35]

I have to say I'm surprised at the poll results. Do that many users shoot (and edit) internationally that you'd need both formats?

I can't speak for others but it is really a daily issue for me in bidding on projects as of the last 3 months.

I have a lot of UK clients that do projects here in the States and in various locations in Europe.

I had hoped that the 170 would have been available in a switchable format by October as that is when a bunch of projects I am doing are beginning.

I think that I am just going to have to either buy an EX1 or a 200ae, if I can find one of those in time...

But I have to say as an end user and not a salesperson or a technician, I really don't understand why this feature hasn't been present since the induction of the HVX200.

This also leads me to the question of - is the 200a factory upgradeable to NTSC/PAL as well?

 

[Barry_Green]

No switchable option for the 200A.

 

[puredrifting]

But I have to say as an end user and not a salesperson or a technician, I really don't understand why this feature hasn't been present since the induction of the HVX200

Politics, money, how Panasonic worldwide has their dealer network setup. Think about it, if all HPX-170s were dual standard, wouldn't most buyers buy their camera from whichever country sells it the cheapest? How would that affect the business of dealers in other countries that normally sell the camera for a lot more? How would that affect service and warranties worldwide? Panasonic could have made the camera switchable but it sounds as if it was a business strategy decision to not make the switchability standard.

It's not clear at all to me how Sony does it with the EX-1 from a business and strategy standpoint.

Dan

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

I am not sure either Dan, but I would be willing to bet that they are experiencing exactly what we are with the HPX500. We have US cameras all over the world and customers that want their warranty in their own country despite the fact that they didn't buy them there. And keep in mind it is a 5 year warranty.

All the best,

Jan

 

[CW-35]

If I buy a PAL camera from B&H such as the DVX100BE or a HVX200E, which I am assuming is not a grey market camera, where would my warranty be?

I am really trying to make somewhat of a longterm decision about a camera purchase, and unfortunately have to do in in the next few weeks. I have a shoot the first week of October in Italy.

I need to now shoot SD PAL material. I am looking into rentals but I have a feeling I will almost spend enough to warrant purchasing a DVX100BE which I might not have much use for afterwards. I'm not that sure that the HVX200AE is even going to be available as I don't see it listed anywhere.

I have scheduled to do some tests this weekend with an EX downcoverting some PAL HD material to SD and seeing how that shapes up. I may unfortunately in terms of all of the Panasonic accessories I have, make the switch to the EX1 because of its availability and the ability to switch standards on it.

Obviously, if the 170 were out and I had gone through the process of upgrading, that would be my favorite choice. somewhat of a case of bad timing and an uncertain release date of the camera itself...

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

If I buy a PAL camera from B&H such as the DVX100BE or a HVX200E, which I am assuming is not a grey market camera, where would my warranty be?
...

Your warranty will be in the country of origin, so that is someplace other than here in the USA. We do not import these to the US and so with that, B & H does the import from their source.

Best,

Jan

 

[Barry_Green]

If I buy a PAL camera from B&H such as the DVX100BE or a HVX200E, which I am assuming is not a grey market camera, where would my warranty be?

If you're buying a PAL camera in the US, it is by very definition gray market. PAL cameras are not sold here by the manufacturers, so B&H would have to be importing them from some other territory. And that makes them gray market, and as Jan said, the only warranty coverage you'd have would be from the country of origin.

 

[puredrifting]

I am not sure either Dan, but I would be willing to bet that they are experiencing exactly what we are with the HPX500. We have US cameras all over the world and customers that want their warranty in their own country despite the fact that they didn't buy them there. And keep in mind it is a 5 year warranty.

All the best,

Jan

Sounds like a warranty/PR/customer service nightmare for you guys Jan. It sounds as if you have made a good compromise on the HPX-170 in the U.S. and that PAL feature enable seems to have worked out okay for Canon since they have been doing it this way. Let the people who think that they "must" have the PAL/NTSC feature pay for it and for those of us who don't care, we don't have to pay for the feature.

Wish that more of the prosumer cameras could be conceived this way. So many on this forum whine if a camcorder doesn't have interchangable lenses (even though statistics show that something like over 90% of Canon XL-H1 buyers do not purchase or ever rent an addtional lens)

How about offering an HPX-170FL (fixed lens) at $5,695.00, then offer the HPX-170RL (removable lens) at $6,995.00. I hate to say it but there seem to be so many users of low end camcorders who won't pony up for an HPX-500, but whine incessantly that the HVX/HPX-170 don't have removable lens, bigger chips, etc. IMHO, keep prosumer cameras what they are, inexpensive, small and light. If people want broadcast features, buy an HPX-500. I have never liked any of the "in-betweeners" like the XLH-1 and the JVC HDV cameras that put a miniature broadcast layout into a tiny package. To me, a broadcast cam is big, heavy, good lens, bigger chips and a prosumer is fixed lens, smaller chips and light and portable.

Not so sure what you and yor Panasonic colleagues think of Sony's strategy with the EX-1/EX-3? I wonder if the EX-3 will cannibalize some larger XDCAM HD camera sales?

Dan

 

[joe 1008]

Checked the Panasonic USA site. The HPX170 will be able to record at 25p. Will it be possible to do so with sound?

 

[Jim Simon]

How about offering an HPX-170FL (fixed lens) at $5,695.00, then offer the HPX-170RL (removable lens) at $6,995.00.

How about dropping that 5 to a 3 and the 6 to a 4? That would be a fair price, I think, considering the absence of a tape transport.