Who here HASN'T been to film school?

But getting a job on a crew, working in post, as a composer, even as a writer... these are areas where school can really help you out, in my experience.
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You just dont need it. Everyone I know is in the industry. Everyone. I have the friends that went to school and I have the friends that didnt. I grew up in the studios and have watched people without the film school get in and move up.

You DONT need it.


Do you know even a single person who paid for school with cash?
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No. Not one. Everyone I know from film school is in severe debt because of it.


But school is about a lot more than that.
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Maybe, but you haven't said what. You met some great people?

So many people in Hollywood or "making films" anywhere are so completely full of crap, and completely talentless.
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Absolutely. Both FROM film school and not from film school. And you cant say that admissions weeds out the bad ones. Just not so. BTW, I make a GREAT distinction between the actual film industry and "making films", so I'm glad you touched on that. Where we part ways is that I firmly KNOW, not believe, that you dont need film school to get started in either.


Why do you have to put the word "film" in quotes like that?
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Because I have no idea what form of "film" you work in. You and your 3 buddies making YouTube flicks may think you are "working in film". I dont know.


You could be a little less obnoxious about this.
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You obviously have never read any of my posts before.
 
You obviously have never read any of my posts before.
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LOL. That's kind of hard to imagine. It's kind of EXPECTED of Gage to be as obnoxious as possible... and then in some rare cases he actually gets serious... scary...
 
GageFX said:
Because I have no idea what form of "film" you work in. You and your 3 buddies making YouTube flicks may think you are "working in film". I dont know.
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Well, I don't like to brag but I'm going to say this because you're pissing me off and I want to show everyone how wrong you are. I've worked on seven (7) studio feature films, including the new Martin Scorsese film which we just wrapped a couple weeks ago. And I wouldn't be where I am if not for film school.

Oh yeah, and I haven't even graduated yet. :beer:
 
Let the admissions do your filtering for you? whew...

hm. I've been to two film classes... and both times I dropped them... nobody in the class was motivated, it frustrated me...
 
I think there is an unfair bias against film schools due to cost. I am talking about private schools with a film program. Not something like a for-profit, BS, "school".

Private colleges cost money, and a lot of it. No matter if you go for film or liberal arts. I chose Ithaca because of the film and television program. And the fact it is a liberal arts school. I take classes all over the spectrum just focus in film. I would rather have a degree in something in the event film doesn't work out. Than save the money I would have spent and try to get a job down the line without a degree.

I don't think cost should even be talked about here. It is that piece of paper that matters more in the professional world. In the event you stop making films and want to get a job somewhere else, you are out of luck. College degrees are required by many occupations. Having a High School degree doesn't cut it anymore.

My take on it.
 
GageFX said:
You just dont need it. Everyone I know is in the industry. Everyone. I have the friends that went to school and I have the friends that didnt. I grew up in the studios and have watched people without the film school get in and move up.

You DONT need it.
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Of course you don't. You don't NEED hardly anything in life. And I don't think I ever said that it was impossible, or even more difficult, for people who didn't go to school to move up in Hollywood. But I don't think a little education ever hurt anyone, either.


Everyone I know from film school is in severe debt because of it.
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I'm not. Many of my friends aren't. I pay about $100 a month towards my loans, and they'll be done within the next year or two. Big deal. Granted, not everyone is lucky enough to land a big scholarship. If you can't afford to go to school, you probably shouldn't go. But hey, you probably also shouldn't be making films!

You're absolutely right that getting in film school doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean you're a good filmmaker. I went to school with some really terrible writers, directors, artists. But getting into that school almost certainly means you're good at SOMETHING. Almost everyone I went to school with showed up on the first day thinking they were going to be the next great director or writer. By graduation at least half had admitted they were never going to be that director or writer. But all of those people are still some of the smartest, most passionate, driven, reliable people I've ever met, and now they're all over the world working as audio mixers or production managers or graphic designers or producers or... I consider that diversity far more valuable than knowing all the guys who are gonna crew up the next Brett Ratner movie. If I was working below-the-line I'd probably feel the opposite, but I'm not. But I think being exposed to people with wildly different interests and backgrounds from you is one of the most valuable things in life. School does that.

Anyway, ultimately this debate never goes anywhere. I got a lot of value out of going to film school and I'm very happy. You're very happy having never set foot in one. Who cares? Diff'rent Strokes.
 
I didn't go to film school, but I did go to college and major in video post/production. Personally, I don't think going to a big is worth the premium price compared to going to a less expensive school w/a film and/or broadcast department. There are things I learned, places I went, people I met, and jobs I earned that I wouldn't have if I didn't go to college so if I had it all to do over again I'd definitely choose college again. There's much more to life than the entertainment biz and going to college can help expose you to things that normally you wouldn't be exposed to.

-A
 
I've taught cinematography/audio/editing/producing at a private undergraduate art college. It can be a great place to learn, have fun and explore. Putting together a class so students can grasp the subject matter and not get hung up on trivial matters takes much thought. Those students that are serious will benefit greatly, the others will have have fun exploring, while a few others will be bored and suffer through the course or drop out.

I've taught students that knew nothing about the subject to write and shoot a few shorts in a 15 week time period. The final product was a 10-15 minute short on DVD, menus, cover art, titles, credits, scripts, behind the scene, interviews, production planning papers, shot list, story boards, overheads, permits, clearances, etc... [I even had students come up with a list of toys, posters, mugs, dolls they could have mfg. if their story was a hit. Distributors would love that!] Most of these students were not film majors but they got an inside look at the process using a professional approach to development, pre- pro, pro and post production with an eye on distribution & exhibition: demographics, historical data on successful genre, negative cost/box office ratios. They ended up amazed at how much they could accomplish with guidance, a goal, teamwork and the tools... pretty cool!..........and that was just the intro class ;) that's what the tuition money went for: in your face, high speed learning...even the things you don't want to know but need to know.

Oh, yes they also acted in their stories.... that was fun!

College can be helpful because silly thinking and laziness is often put it in check. Chances are you don't know when you're being silly or lazy; most of us are somewhat unaware and undisciplined in these areas. Also, there are many difficult things to learn and having someone there who can show you the ropes is helpful for increasing your advancement so you can rapidly progress and work on further higher order challenges.

Do you need to go to college? No! you don't need college to learn and succeed. Look at Bill Gates, he's a college drop out. All he has is a high school diploma, but most of us aren't that fortunate and need all the extra help we can get.
 
I haven't... hard core self-taught... I took all of my math in college like that and my grades shot thought the roof from what they were like before.

I would love to go to film school though... but at the same time the way you learn when you have to learn alone can give you some important advantages too.
But it all comes down to the person (and school :)).
 
Went to film school ten years ago (pre-FCP). Learned FCP from a guy who used the old Premiere and had never used FCP himself. I bought the Final Cut Pro Bible and learned basic compositing. My work got better as we learned from people we worked with. People are still shocked I don't use timecode (the irony here is our company is called TimeCode Mechanics, figure that one out). If you can go to film school for awhile, do it, if nothing else to simply use their equipment. I went to Columbia College here in Chicago. They have the Sony FX and the JVC HD110. Flashpoint Academy has some HVXs somewhere there.
Brandon Rice said:
I've been to two film classes... and both times I dropped them... nobody in the class was motivated, it frustrated me...
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People were motivated in my class just no one expected anybody to do vampire and martial arts films for their black and white five minute shorts. Plus I had the hot chicks in my flicks (I took an acting class and knew where all the babes were, LOL). Everyone else did dramas or experimental pieces. The students loved my stuff (and of course the teacher hated it).

-Nate
 
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No Film School but I'll date myself by saying that when I went to college (1974) for music I volunteered to be the video engineer for the school. It was all done on reel to reel as well as the audio at the time. Guess I be mighty old! Those were the good old days, the guys in the tech department said here you go, now go figure it out and get it done. No classes just experience and they were no help.

I was there for music but got bit by the video bug. I had three cameras and some audio people and it was always a live mix with a switcher. I learned more being dropped into it with no help then in most of the classes that I have taken since. Had to figure out how to handle 5 or 6 people and all the gear and what would be needed and how to get it all there and working and how to get the light guys to work with you. In those days the light guys were the janitors.

I like digital audio and video. Its so much easier than the old days. I love my Nikon D300 and my HVX and my CS3 Photoshop and FCP and Motion and DXO and NIK filters ect, ect, ect.
 
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Reading Filmmaker Magazine's 25 New up-and-coming filmmakers...and most of them have got all the attention and buzz for a film they made in film school as a thesis project or some other film school endeavour. Yes, anyone can self teach. You can teach yourself to be a medical doctor, too (though no state would licence you). But for some people, school is a great place to have the freedom to explore and learn and try things with support and crews and equipment at the ready. Yes, yes, yes, you can do ALL of this without a school. But some can't or won't. Everyone's different. It's hard to compare the guy who grows up in Hollywood with family and friends in the business, to some guy from small-town Idaho who doesn't know what a movie camera looks like in real life, but loves movies and really wants to do it. In the end, the real filmmaker ignores all our advice and makes it as a filmmaker either going to film school or not going to film school--whatever works for him.

p.s. I haven't been to film school. I've written a bunch of produced TV and have had my last five shorts financed by someone other than myself. I started late though, and would have gone to film school in a heartbeat if I'd even known it existed (I was more like the small-town kid from Idaho who didn't really even know that people made movies for a living).
 
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...and most of them have got all the attention and buzz for a film they made in film school...
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Not everyone in film school gets to make a film. That's also part of the problem.

What is an "other film school endeavor"?
 
GageFX said:
What is an "other film school endeavor"?
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Not a thesis project. Any other film undertaken while at film school, whether through the program or not, but made during that time.

Filmmaker Magazine may have certain biases, but it is interesting to see how many of these "hot new filmmakers" are coming up via some film they made while in film school. Not all of them of course.
 
I have never been, either. I went to audio engineering school (Go Citrus!) a few years back and graduated from that. People say I have an "eye" for video, but if I did go to school, I think I could be so much better.

But that is not in the cards right now. I will have to be satisfied learning a choice tidbit or two from you people here, when you decide to share with me. LOL, please share!
 
I didn't go. There are a lot of reasons NOT to go, not the least being the expense. However, the UCLA screenwriting program has a good track record, about 70% make it to WGA within 5 years.

About networking, someone mentioned something about the filter effect, that's probably true, if you go to one of the top three, (NYU, UCLA, SC), at least at the graduate level, you'll meet some intimidating resumes. Harvard, Oxford, Top Guns, blah blah.
 
sean90291 said:
Yes, anyone can self teach. You can teach yourself to be a medical doctor, too (though no state would licence you).
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But the options aren't limited to go to school and learn in a classroom or stay at home and learn in isolation. Getting gigs and learning from professionals, finding a mentor, etc., is the best way to learn, IMO.


brianluce said:
I didn't go. There are a lot of reasons NOT to go, not the least being the expense. However, the UCLA screenwriting program has a good track record, about 70% make it to WGA within 5 years.
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I think a more telling indicator would be what percentage make a living wage from writing alone?


-A
 
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