Filming first documentary, mic and progressive questions

B

bulgari

New member
My university has lent me a panasonic DVX100B to do a documentary about a political group in Japan, and I'm going to spend the next 4 weeks filming it, pretty much by myself. I'm a journalism student but except for a 4 week video course I don't really have much camera experience, and I'm looking for a bit of advice. I don't know if I'm completely out of my league but my goal is to produce something that could be broadcast on (my small European country's) national TV.

My no. 1 problem is that the hand held interview mic I've borrowed from my university (an Audio Technica MB-3k) produces a ton of hand noise unless I hold it completely and utterly still, which I've from test-shooting realized I'm unable to do for any longer period of time. I've been given a generous grant by my country's embassy in Japan to shoot the doc though so I figured I might as well buy a new microphone.

I've also realized that the DVX100B's internal stereo mic might not be up to broadcast quality either, which I'd hope it to be (my country's national TV is often pretty forgiving to less-than-perfect video quality, especially if it's made by a student, but I'm not so sure they'd be that generous if the audio is poor).

Should I spend a lot of cash on buying a shotgun mic and an interview mic (given that I have to return the damn camera after shooting this)? I'm hoping to film both normal interviews as well as people shouting at the top of their lungs in megaphones. I was thinking maybe a (really good?) mounted mic could be enough, but I have no idea, would that ruin the interviews with a lot of background noise, or what?

If anybody can recommend specific microphones, that would be really great.

I'm also wondering whether I should shoot in 25P or interlaced, and if in 25P, DVX100B's F5 or F6? I have gathered many think of it is as a matter of taste, but I've also heard it's easier shooting in interlaced if you don't have full control over light sources (which I definitely won't have).

Also, if anybody is feeling generous, I wouldn't mind just general advice on things to think of when you're filming your first documentary, all on your own in a foreign country (I do speak the language though, I should add).

Best,
Bulgari
 
An other microphon won´t solve your problem.
Get a boom (or at least a painters stick) and a shock mount that isolates the microphone from the stick - don´t forget the wind fur.

Interlaced versus progressive has nothing to do with the light.
Progressive on a DVX is fine.

Frank
 
I've had decent success using a shotgun mounted to the camera. It doesn't work very well when there's a lot of background noise, or outdoors, but if it's all you got, then it can be passable. The built-in mics will get you nowhere. if you are doing a closeup interview, I don't think you need a separate mic for that.* *Unless it's a really loud environment. If you are doing a sit-down interview indoors, a regular boom mic stand works great. You could probably get one there, and use your shotgun mic.

If you can't bring a boompole, at least bring a shockmount for your mic and gaffers tape. You can use just about anything as a boompole. I've used broomsticks and wood poles. Whatever you have handy. To have someone on boom really helps to free up your camera to shoot any direction without worrying about the audio. Especially when shooting group meetings.


I have several documentaries "in the can", and none are finished.... and I'll tell you my big stumbling block. I shot using one camera, and no matter how hard I tried to get footage that would cut together, I still didn't get enough. With the mic mounted on the camera, you have to shoot the person who is talking, but you don't want to be locked-in to their whole speech, so you need some cut-aways and reaction shots, and usually when you a ready to get those the action is over and everyone walks away, leaving you few options for editing. Get cutaways for every scene you can, especially cutaways that relate to what the person is saying.

If I was to shoot another documentary, I would ABSOLUTELY have two cameras, even if the second camera was a cheap little handycam run by a non-pro. I've seen people use the cheap second camera as a "stylized" shot, like b&w or sepia, rather than try to match an inferior image to the dvx.

Another tip- Don't be stingy with the record button. I've missed great moments because I was too lazy to be shooting. Bring LOTS of tapes, enough batteries to last the whole day, and lens tissue.

If you shoot 25p, you need to watch your panning speeds and really focus on keeping the camera as steady as you can for shots to be usable. If you go interlaced, not as big of a deal. Consider some kind of shoulder mount. I've never used one, but it seems like it would help, although it would be an extra burden to carry around.

As far as mics go. They're all pretty close in terms of performance for each price point. Get the most expensive one you can afford and it will give you years of good service. I spent $800 on a used neumann kmr-81i and have never regretted it. In the audio section there's a link to a mic shootout site that has recordings of each mic in the same environment.


Good luck! It should be an exciting time.
 
Thanks for the advice.

I'm filming all by myself so a boom pole isn't an option, but a boom mic stand sounds like a really good idea (that I hadn't even considered). That way I could still use my AT interview mic, and just spend money on a shotgun mount when I'm filming non-interview situations, right?
 
bulgari said:
Thanks for the advice.

I'm filming all by myself so a boom pole isn't an option, but a boom mic stand sounds like a really good idea (that I hadn't even considered). That way I could still use my AT interview mic, and just spend money on a shotgun mount when I'm filming non-interview situations, right?
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Surely you can recruit someone there? Give them a quick lesson on where to hold the mic and you'll *probably* be better off than only using the mic mounted on-camera.

Personally, I wouldn't use the AT mic at all. It's a unidirectional mic, in other words, it will pick up a lot of BG noise. I use a shotgun on the boom mic stand for interviews.

I guess, if you have two or three people standing around the AT in a quiet environment it might work out. Some tests after you get the shotgun will give you your answer.
 
Thanks again for the advice.

I won't be able to hire somebody, unfortunately.

I got a slightly cheaper shotgun than I expected, but it works OK. I have one problem I suppose is related to the camera's settings though: I started filming a bit yesterday, a demo with a lot of shouting in megaphones on a busy street. everytime they stopped shouting, the mic became a lot more responsive to the cars and background noise, I guess there's some kind of normalization going on? the result became a bit weird, because you can hear how the sound of the cars goes up regularly when they make breathing pauses... any advice on how I can deal with this?
 
Your next best option, if you can't have a boom mic and/or someone to operate it, is to get a wireless mic kit. If you purchased one with a body pack and lavaliere microphone, and also an xlr plug-in transmitter, you'd probably be able to get better audio than any on-camera mic (especially for interviews, and walk-n-talk setups). Should you want to use your hand-held microphone, you can either use it with a cable, or put on the plug-in transmitter.

Gregory gave some great advice -- make sure the ALC is turned off. This is key regardless!

I've used the Audio Technica, Lectrosonics and Sennheiser gear with no problems. It all depends on your budget, though.

Here are some links:

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/productdetail.asp?transid=G2-1

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wls_systems/89aff02a96d55e38/index.html

and don't forget used gear on ebay, craigslist and dvxuser.com. You could probably get a Audio-Technica or Azden system that will work well for you, and at a decent price.

Even better -- running a shotgun on-camera and a wireless on your talent gives you a bit more insurance, as you'll be able to choose which audio track to use when editing (or can combine them)
 
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gregorybennett said:
Make sure that your menu settings for audio aren't set to ALC (Automatic Level Control).
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I would strongly recommend leaving the ALC ON, because it can, and will, save your a$$ when the levels get all freaky and you can't get to the knobs quick enough.

Try it for yourself, set the level for the cars/ street sounds, then blast a megaphone into it. With ALC off you will get distortion, with ALC on, it will dip the level, (limiting it really) so at least it's not distorted. If you had an external mixer with its own limiters, I would say keep it off, but with unpredictable situations keep it on. When you hear it "working", as you did, it just means that your levels are too hot and it's working the limiters too much.

For the best sound, go only up to where you don't notice if the limiters are kicking in or not. If you look at your level meters while turning it down, keep turning until the level on the meter starts to drop. If the meters are staying pinned to the red line, you need to lower it until you see it only peak to the red line on the loudest sounds. Also, a good trick to setting levels is if you are constantly setting too high, turn your headphone monitoring level UP. If your levels are always a bit weak, turn your headphones DOWN. Once you find the sweet spot, leave it there and you will be able to set levels by ear.

Lets be practical here guys, you will have to even out the levels in post anyway, so why not let the camera do a little work for you first. I think everyone would agree that slightly weird-sounding/ compressed audio peaks is a LOT better than un-fixable distortion.


As far as wireless go, I would be wary about using it in a foreign country, unless you research that frequency band, and still, you never know what might be inhabiting that space . I've never had any success with a Lav setup on run-n-gun documentary work, although a plug-on pack with a handheld mic sounds like it could be useful if you had a spokesperson to use it.
 
Where in Japan will you be shooting? There are members here, you know. If you are in my area I may be able to lend you a Zoom H2 digital recording mic or even help you out if it fits my schedule.
 
yeehaanow said:
Lets be practical here guys, you will have to even out the levels in post anyway, so why not let the camera do a little work for you first. I think everyone would agree that slightly weird-sounding/ compressed audio peaks is a LOT better than un-fixable distortion.
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Given the users experience level I would have to agree 100% for the street megaphone shots. Those megaphones emit a horrid sound at the best of times. Level it out in post. Make sure you turn ALC off for your interviews though.

yeehaanow said:
As far as wireless go, I would be wary about using it in a foreign country, unless you research that frequency band, and still, you never know what might be inhabiting that space .
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Ive worked with a few crews from the US in Tokyo/Yokohama/Hiroshima/Osaka/Kyoto, where they used their own lavs and didnt come across a frequency issue.
 
Let me add my two cents to this:

1) You have to use and properly position a boom mic or lavalier mics to record any dialogue acceptably. It's absolutely not optional at all.

2) Don't shoot progressive unless you've been practicing it for a while. Progressive video is less forgiving than interlaced.

- Your pans and camera moves have to be either so fast that everything is blurred or very slow and smooth, otherwise you get distracting judder.

- You have to track moving subjects so they remain at precisely the same position within the frame. Otherwise you get distracting judder.

- You can't shoot handheld, you must mount the cam on your shoulders and control it precisely or use a tripod. Otherwise, ... (you get the idea).
 
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