The Letus Ultimate -- Experience Thread

Avenger007 said:
Have you noticed any hot spotting toward the middle? The 24mm shot appears to be hotter toward the middle but could just be the sun hitting the ground a certain way.

If the Ultimate does indeed include a PL mount in that price tag I think they are looking pretty good. My only hesitation is that it is still well over twice the cost of an SG. IMO Shoot35 could spend a few hundred bucks and create a very stellar adapter with just a few improvements. The SG already has great build quality and a great looking image. Improve the flip (resulting in better light loss), give X/Y, and a variable speed control and you've got a $2000 SG that can really compete. I also love how fast the unit installs on the rod system. No other adapter can be slid on and off that fast.

I guess I just need to see it in person. I tend to buy things very quickly when they are in front of me. Have they given a release date?
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The hotspotting is due to the 24mm Lens itself. It's the only one that did that (didn't try the 16). Add to that the mirror boards hitting that spot because that's where the boy was kickin' the soccer ball. The Standard Speed wides all have visible light fall off and the only way to clear it with an adapter is to zoom in more. Not my cup of tea for this shoot.

SGpro, M2, and Extreme are not to compete with Letus Ultimate and rightfully so they aren't. The Ultimate is geared toward the P+S and MovieTube, adding options and image quality that the SGpro, M2, and Extreme just won't be able to incorporate sub 3000.00. With the exception of Redrock, I don't think any of the other adapter manfuacturers are willing to take the steps that Letus Corp took in fear of the unit "costing too much to make and for the end user." I can tell you that I know a solid amount of people ready to plunk down 4500 as it stands to get their hands on one. The freedom that the Ultimate gives you is unparalleled at this point (price included) and it'll probably be like that for a while.

If you feel like the SGpro can compete with a simple variable speed control then that's an opinion and hey, you probably don't need more than that!

There are some things going on in the Ultimate that were previously said to be 1.) Too expensive. 2.) Of no benefit to the end user. 3.) Not something that would be trusted. 4.) too Heavy. This was by Wayne Kinney himself on the subject of "real glass ground glass". Yeah, the Ultimate features a real glass ground glass and STILL at .5 stops of light. STILL with fantastic bokeh (one thing Wayne said he doubted glass could offer) and everything else we've all wanted from adapters in general.

Letus did it, I think Wayne's now going to add real glass to the new SGBlade but admitted that it would either lose the same amount of light or the Bokeh wouldn't be good. Well, the Ultimate has both.

Take it as my opinion, but I don't think a 2000.00 SGblade or anything that doesn't match the Ultimate shot for shot in every single area is going to compete. Judge it on what you need for your shooting environments and what you don't. Some people are STILL shooting with upside down images. No way for me. Some people are still shooting with 2 stops of light loss. No way for me. Get what ya think ya need. If 4500.00 is too much then it's not the right unit for you. If they lower it to 4000.00 then consider it insane on their part. Redrock does insane things like that (600.00 insane Mattebox), maybe Letus will follow suit?

The price for freedom may seem steep at times, but freedom is worth it.

Just my two cents!
 
Kholi said:
There are some things going on in the Ultimate that were previously said to be 1.) Too expensive. 2.) Of no benefit to the end user. 3.) Not something that would be trusted. 4.) too Heavy. This was by Wayne Kinney himself on the subject of "real glass ground glass". Yeah, the Ultimate features a real glass ground glass and STILL at .5 stops of light. STILL with fantastic bokeh (one thing Wayne said he doubted glass could offer) and everything else we've all wanted from adapters in general.

Letus did it, I think Wayne's now going to add real glass to the new SGBlade but admitted that it would either lose the same amount of light or the Bokeh wouldn't be good. Well, the Ultimate has both.

Take it as my opinion, but I don't think a 2000.00 SGblade or anything that doesn't match the Ultimate shot for shot in every single area is going to compete. Judge it on what you need for your shooting environments and what you don't. Some people are STILL shooting with upside down images. No way for me. Some people are still shooting with 2 stops of light loss. No way for me. Get what ya think ya need. If 4500.00 is too much then it's not the right unit for you. If they lower it to 4000.00 then consider it insane on their part. Redrock does insane things like that (600.00 insane Mattebox), maybe Letus will follow suit?


Just my two cents!
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I think I should chime in here. In my other post that you are refering to, I was comparing a 'real glass' GG to the current SGpro GG. I stated that no 'real glass' GG disk will give the same aesthetic in terms of the Bokeh Rendition created with the SGpro's GG, this is due to its unique diffusion.

For the upcoming Blade, we will be offering 2 GG elements:

1: 'Real Glass'

Pros:
Extremely low lightloss
Grainless (freedom to close aperture and/or use high shutter speeds)

Cons:
Hazy bokeh

2: SGpro's current GG element

Pros:
The most aesthetically pleasing and true bokeh rendition out there

Cons:
Possible grain @ below F4
slightly more lightloss


So, comparing all attributes of the Blades upcoming 'real glass' GG to that of the Letus ultimate, there really will be no difference - including bokeh. I have studied all the Ultimate grabs and still describe the bokeh to be 'hazy'. Not that it is a bad thing, this is a compromise with low lightloss and grain.
 
Folks are already comparing sub $2000 adapters in terms of imaging quality over more expensive units...very favorably I might add. Geez, we've designed in full microprocessor control, external oscillation control and the Brevis unit is still $1500. Factor in 2.3 lbs weight, what's coming in terms of interchangeable imaging elements (film bokeh for our users), and our zoomable 2/3" relay, and the expectation is that our entire unit including the 2/3" relay and PL mount less will cost less than $4500. Food for thought :-)
 
To support what I was saying in my previous post above, I have made a little mock example GIF showing exactly what I am refering to in regards to the difference in diffusion and bokeh rendition between the SGpro's current GG and any other GG element I have come across, including 'real glass':

bokehdifference.gif


The way lines go out of focus with the SGpro's GG on the right are far more true to what happens in a real film camera, and this is exactly what happens with the SGpro's GG due to its unique diffusion.
 
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And also another example, this time using a picture, again a mocked up version:

bokehdifference02.gif


Notice how hard lines are retained when going out of focus on the SGpro's GG on the right.
 
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If I have $4500, I will buy 1x sg pro, 1x letus ex ,strap them into 2 cameras and get best of both world. Then I still have more than $2k left for a cmc6/mk41. LOL

Either way, *TO ME* $4500 is too high of a price for an adapter and I doubt one will get 4x better performance than the current sub $1300 adapters out there. At $4500 I hope there will be no more extra for any "Optimization" kit. :p

I think the letus Ultimate is designed for another segment of the market (higher end user) or for rental houses. IF you spend $4500 on an adapter, you better be using $$$$$ cine PL mount lenses to benefit most of it, and not that $80 50mm f1.4, 30 yr old Nikon non-AI used lens you just scored from ebay or keh.com.
 
Dennis Wood said:
Folks are already comparing sub $2000 adapters in terms of imaging quality over more expensive units...very favorably I might add. Geez, we've designed in full microprocessor control, external oscillation control and the Brevis unit is still $1500. Factor in 2.3 lbs weight, what's coming in terms of interchangeable imaging elements (film bokeh for our users), and our zoomable 2/3" relay, and the expectation is that our entire unit including the 2/3" relay and PL mount less will cost less than $4500. Food for thought :-)
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Naturally, because more people here can't afford 4500.00 adapters. I'm sorry, but even with your Mp.1 upgrade the Brevis doesn't offer a quarter of what the Ultimate does. And it shouldn't naturally because it doesn't cost as much.

Take it as "food for thought", though.
 
Kholi you have very valid points and from what I have heard, I can begin to trust the judgments of the early testers regarding the quality of the product versus cost. But I also think that the other adapter manufacturers share a similar opinion of mine and showed that with the last few posts.

As the end user, I think we should challenge the quality vs cost idea at all times. My goal is to understand whether the ultimate's price tag is justified given the competition. If the Ultimate begins to fix problems I have with the current adapters then I have no issue with spending north of $4000 on a tool that gets the job done. I just hope that translates into the client as well.

I am currently working on a writeup showcasing my shootout between M2, Brevis, and SG from my last shoot. The client refused to try another adapter other than the "famous" redrock. Their opinion changed within five hours of the first day of shooting when the M2 was losing too much light and not delivering the picture they "expected". Thus, its difficult to sell someone on technical improvements to something so foreign as a 35 adapter that costs over twice as much as the next competitor. I am of course referring to lower profile customers.

Regardless, I have high hopes and they will get my business either way if it delivers.
 
Wayne Kinney said:
I think I should chime in here. In my other post that you are refering to, I was comparing a 'real glass' GG to the current SGpro GG. I stated that no 'real glass' GG disk will give the same aesthetic in terms of the Bokeh Rendition created with the SGpro's GG, this is due to its unique diffusion.

For the upcoming Blade, we will be offering 2 GG elements:

1: 'Real Glass'

Pros:
Extremely low lightloss
Grainless (freedom to close aperture and/or use high shutter speeds)

Cons:
Hazy bokeh

2: SGpro's current GG element

Pros:
The most aesthetically pleasing and true bokeh rendition out there

Cons:
Possible grain @ below F4
slightly more lightloss


So, comparing all attributes of the Blades upcoming 'real glass' GG to that of the Letus ultimate, there really will be no difference - including bokeh. I have studied all the Ultimate grabs and still describe the bokeh to be 'hazy'. Not that it is a bad thing, this is a compromise with low lightloss and grain.
Click to expand...

http://www.marcocordero.com/SGpro/sgpro_bokeh_720.mov

I know wha tyou're getting at, Wayne... but what I see in this Bokeh test is Hazy bokeh when the lens is wide open.

NATURALLY SO. Because when you USE a lens wide open the bokeh is going to get Hazy, the faster it is the more it displays such an artifcat. You can see this in any movie, and if I have to post some HD stills from THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA to prove this point I will.

SO yeah, use your lens wide open like I did and the definition decreases.

Sorry guys, not to work you two up but this is my opinion and that's pretty much it for me. The Ultimate excels over everything else out there for me, if you think that it doesn't then no harm no foul, we all have choices.
 
Dxmetal said:
If I have $4500, I will buy 1x sg pro, 1x letus ex ,strap them into 2 cameras and get best of both world. Then I still have more than $2k left for a cmc6/mk41. LOL

Either way, *TO ME* $4500 is too high of a price for an adapter and I doubt one will get 4x better performance than the current sub $1300 adapters out there. At $4500 I hope there will be no more extra for any "Optimization" kit. :p

I think the letus Ultimate is designed for another segment of the market (higher end user) or for rental houses. IF you spend $4500 on an adapter, you better be using $$$$$ cine PL mount lenses to benefit most of it, and not that $80 50mm f1.4, 30 yr old Nikon non-AI used lens you just scored from ebay or keh.com.
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I'm not sure why it needs to be repeated: the Ultimate wasnt' designed to compete with SGpro, M2, or Extreme. It's for an entirely different market that's already stepped in line to pay for it.

If you think you need to buy two or three adapters to get what you can get out of one then more power to you, man. Nobody's stopping you. Nobody's going to cry over it, either.

Just do what works best for you. In the end, this thread is to show what I'm getting out of the Ultimate and why it's the end-all for me. The only other releases I'm looking forward to are what REDROCK has in store. My money's going to stay on RR and Letus, I feel they make the best of the bunch.

Again, that's me.
 
Isn't this the "Letus Ultimate - Experience Thread"? Not the "other manufacturers come in and show why their products are better" thread?

Seriously.
 
Avenger007 said:
Kholi you have very valid points and from what I have heard, I can begin to trust the judgments of the early testers regarding the quality of the product versus cost. But I also think that the other adapter manufacturers share a similar opinion of mine and showed that with the last few posts.

As the end user, I think we should challenge the quality vs cost idea at all times. My goal is to understand whether the ultimate's price tag is justified given the competition. If the Ultimate begins to fix problems I have with the current adapters then I have no issue with spending north of $4000 on a tool that gets the job done. I just hope that translates into the client as well.

I am currently working on a writeup showcasing my shootout between M2, Brevis, and SG from my last shoot. The client refused to try another adapter other than the "famous" redrock. Their opinion changed within five hours of the first day of shooting when the M2 was losing too much light and not delivering the picture they "expected". Thus, its difficult to sell someone on technical improvements to something so foreign as a 35 adapter that costs over twice as much as the next competitor. I am of course referring to lower profile customers.

Regardless, I have high hopes and they will get my business either way if it delivers.
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I say do what you need to. I'm not here to sell you or anyone else an Ultimate. This is MY experience thread, not Jacob's or Jason's or Jacoby McMillenheim. Wherever you guys choose to spend your money, fantastic!!! Go make pretty images with them!

Only thing I stated was my opinion and that's nothing available right now compares to the overall package that the Ultimate delivers. I don't need to buy two or three adapters, I get it all in one. I don't need hacks or cracks anymore, it's all in one.

I don't have to avoid situations because the adapter can't handle it, it's handled for me. And that's worth 4500.00 to me.

This adapter was not designed to compete with the lower priced market, point blank and simple. The owners of this unit will be the ones who can justify it by heaps of work, rental houses, etc. And that's just gonna be that. Wayne has already stated that he's releasing another unit, keep your eye out for that if low cost is what you need.

Just my money is on Letus and RR.
 
Barry_Green said:
Isn't this the "Letus Ultimate - Experience Thread"? Not the "other manufacturers come in and show why their products are better" thread?

Seriously.
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To be fair, I was answering Kholi comments as he refered to me directly by my full name on post 41.

At the end of the day, the difference is an aesthetic which is neither right or wrong.

I posted the image to give a visual idea to support my comments.

Which one is better is ofcourse subjective and I am very glad that Kholi is happy with his adapter!
 
Kholi said:
If you think you need to buy two or three adapters to get what you can get out of one then more power to you, man. Nobody's stopping you. Nobody's going to cry over it, either.
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We would buy 2 adapters because we always shoot with 2 cameras anyways. BTW, we have not yet been in situation where the vibrating GC Letus EX couldnt handle the 'situation'.

Again *I* know where *I* can spend my $4500 better and I know we are better off with 2x 35mm adapters on our 2 camera than to burn $4500 and get just one overpriced letus ultimate.

Then again, like what I said, its *me*. I could care less how others decided to spend their money. RR and Letus are good companies but some of their products are lacking in terms of design. I dont pledge any allegiance to any particular brands, just looking for that 'sweet spot' and the best for my buck.
 
for me sgpro (quality -price)is the winner expecially with the new (coming soon )stainless steel lens mout with "real time " back focus adjustment.
what i would like to have to be very very happy is:
1:more sharpness(maybe a new high resolution achromat.really i don't now what give more sharpness if the achromat or GG).
2:also a more solid spindle to disc mating should be developed
thanks wayne.
 
Kholi,

I'm really interested in the new Ultimate. It sounds great and I would love to get my hands on one. Hien explained to me that other manufacturers have told him that considering the costs and engineering involved , $4500 is way too cheap so I don't think its fair to criticize Letus for their pricing. i'm sure they know they would sell more at $3000 if they could.

The images you posted look very sharp and clean and especially your statement that it was hard to tell the difference between the adapter and the non adapter footage was encouraging. I'd like to see comparison tests on an Ex-1 since that's what i now own and also because its resolution is so much greater you would just see more. I guess can look at Philip Bloom's stuff for that though.

Once again, I do get concerned about extremely worded comparisons about one adapter being so much better than another without making sure the writer has personal experience with the adapters in question. I'm not familiar with being unable to shoot skies with an SGPro or a Brevis for that matter - is there a problem I haven't seen?

I guess I'd like to ask if you have compared the recent SGPro or the Brevis to the Ultimate personally or just through images on the web?

Re: Barry's remark about whether other manufacturers should be posting on this thread. I think after Kholi's strident comparison's it should be expected.

BTW - I found Wayne's comparison images of bokeh the most instructive thing I've seen anywhere on this subject. Whether he was accurate about the Ultimate's bokeh I have no idea, but I learned alot from it. Thanks Wayne.

Lenny Levy
 
I think Wayne's stuff is quite interesting as well. Is this the place for it? What I'm questioning is whether other site sponsors should come in and try to market against another product in a thread devoted to that other product.

Site sponsors shouldn't be actively "marketing" to anyone at all anyway. If site sponsors want to participate by sharing information, answering questions, etc., that's great. But direct marketing or questioning another site sponsor's pricing or whatever -- that's the part that struck me as ... perhaps unnecessary.

Wayne, feel free to start a new thread talking about SG Pro's Bokeh and including all those pictures and explain what it is you're trying to do, that's fine.
 
I still have yet to see an adapter that renders the same filmic bokeh as the sgpro. (my opinion). Like the above poster said. I'll probably be out fitting my second cam with a letus ex or brevis for the low light situations if I can't light to compensate. I'm tired of chasing every piece of gear that comes on the market. At the end of the day, we've seen beautiful images from all these sub $1000 adapters.
 
Barry,

I am certainly not marketing against another adapter, indeed my visual example is a comparison between one GG element and another, both of which will be used as an option in our SGblade. If I were, that would mean I am marketing our product against one of our other products - this isn't so.

I am simply trying to demo the effect that different GG elements can have on the final image output and the pro's and con's of each. I have spoken a lot about this in other threads which is what Kholi was refering to, I thought a visual example would get the point across far better.
 
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