Buying Audio Gear, need some help

K

Kero

Member
I'm looking to put together the start of a great audio package that will last me for some time to come. I've read up on a lot of equipment and reviews but I need some final opinions specific to my situation to help me decide which route to take.

I'm looking to do mostly narrative production work, indoor and outdoor.

My line of thought with most things is that I'd rather spend more money and buy the best, then have to sell a medium-end purchase to upgrade later.

I am going to record into an HVX, but am planning on getting the RED camera eventually.

I was looking at the following:

SD302
Gitzo 12' carbon fiber boom pole
KTek kzepp
KTek shock mount

Schoeps CMIT 5U (or KMR81i, or MHK416)
Schopes CMC614

I do not have enough budget currently to purchase both Schoeps microphones. Would it be better to purchase the 614 to use indoor/outdoor until I had enough funds to buy the CMIT, or is it better to use the CMIT indoors until I can buy the 614.

Or is another option better? Are the schoeps really worth getting for the price?

Any input greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
First part looks good. I don't think you should bother with Schoeps unless you can afford everything else, like wireless, first.

Certain other posters [ ;-) ] will call Schoeps a waste of money, I will not. It is just an unwise investment for someone who has to make hard choices to keep his budget down.

You are going to want wireless (plural) and if you don't plan to upgrade then you will want to bypass the mediocre G2 and get a couple of Lectros (2xx or 4xx) and maybe even consider Zaxcom for complete satisfaction.

There are also about a thousand dollars of little nickle and dime extras you will need to complete your kit (cables, cases, bags, tool kits, boom buddy, adaptors, BDS, breakaways, IFB, rechargables...the list goes on and on). We had a thread on this once awhile back. Might be good to find that.

Oh yeah...and headphones ;)

Cheers
 
soorry if you like schoeps why you so chap on the boom to hold it
kek or loon audio are much , much better products (loon audio penta is for you)
about c mit , it anice mic and i have one but sorry , i prefer others for less money - sc-3 e is much versatil and 416 is good for astarter and can live for ever ( also there are plenty of used you can buy , even from me:-))
ktek zepp and ktek suspentions are very good
the 641 is areally waist of money for dialog and that ha you goig to record
check the gefell 210, mkh-8040 /50or 40/50 for much less
neuman 150
or just start with mbho 603 with ka-500 or neuman 185
dont be ashmock who adicted to logo advertisment
by the way -exep the neuman 185 i have them all ( incl schoepsces)
versatility is much better then oun 1 good mic as you dont shoot only with 50mm all the time .
spread the budget you can work normaly not jut say you have schoeps ( at least me it not really impress)
about mixer - its agood start but its only 3 channels and very uncomfortable for normal drama work
 
Thanks for the replys,

would it be better to invest in the 422 and get say the mkh416 and the gefell 210?
 
question for you Kero.

will you be the one operating this equipment while shooting your HVX and soon to be Red? Or are you looking to have someone use your gear?

Having great tools is all well and good, but give me a $200 mic straight to camera and i can make it sound better than a novice with $20,000 worth of gear.
 
Kero,

Does that dedicated sound guy know what he's doing? You're talking about some very unforgiving mics, pattern-wise, so unless s/he knows what they're doing, you will have problems with people moving in and out of range on the mic.

As far as the mics go, again, depending on how experienced your boom op is, you may want to look at more forgiving mics, like the AT 4073a. If you really feel like you want top quality, go for a used Sennheiser 416. You can get them for as low as $450 (what I paid for mine) and have a great all around mic. People here and elsewhere seem to feel the Sanken CS3e can be used indoors and outdoors, I don't have one so I don't know. I would follow Wabbit's advice and look into wireless.

Also, since you will have a dedicated sound guy, will you be shooting run and gun style, or can your sound guy sit and mix. If so, then forget the 302 and get a full mixing board like the Mackie Onyx or Alesis Firewire (the one I have). You will save a lot of money and have many more channels to use. You will also then be in position to add a digital recording system like Boom Recorder or Metacorder as your needs grow.

I've said this many times, when equipment recommendations are made here, they often assume run and gun. Honestly, a lot, if not most, narrative is done sit and mix, not run and gun.

Phil
 
Kero said:
Thanks for the replys,

would it be better to invest in the 422 and get say the mkh416 and the gefell 210?
Click to expand...

you can go with both of 2 worlds , you can go with 302 and use it as preamps for mackey or what phil sudgested and go then to the camera
so you will ahve mixer for eng style and also normal working sarface with disterbution and ability run external recording to compueter if needed .
about shot guns
- iam adicted to sanken but did many good years with 416
about what hyper - it depends . i prefer geffel as it has very nerrow pattern( between the 40 and 50), very smoth sound and almost no coloration off axis
it does low fq roll off wht exelent for boom rumbling , sorry if i dont need swivel mount it almost perfect for 90% of the time
i dforgot the akg 483 which is also exellent choice and much cheaper the schoeps ( has ability for swivel)
 
I swear by the Sennheiser MKH-416...freakin great mic! It does almost EVERYTHING you need. I love it...and it will last longer than your career...at which point you can sell it and get back almost what you put into it.
Don't cheap out on a mic just for that reason.

I record into the Fostex fr2-LE. It's a step below the FR2, but not in quality.
 
You don't have a recorder in your list? Not sure about the audio in the HVX but the RED has some serious issues with sound, like basically it doesn't record it. Actually you can get it to record but it is BAD.
 
thats whuy i bought a nice deva 16 today , to support the stupid red audio desighn and make some cash :-)
 
Kero said:
My line of thought with most things is that I'd rather spend more money and buy the best, then have to sell a medium-end purchase to upgrade later.

I am going to record into an HVX, but am planning on getting the RED camera eventually.

I was looking at the following:

SD302
Gitzo 12' carbon fiber boom pole
KTek kzepp
KTek shock mount

Schoeps CMIT 5U (or KMR81i, or MHK416)
Schopes CMC614

I do not have enough budget currently to purchase both Schoeps microphones. Would it be better to purchase the 614 to use indoor/outdoor until I had enough funds to buy the CMIT, or is it better to use the CMIT indoors until I can buy the 614.

Or is another option better? Are the schoeps really worth getting for the price?
Click to expand...

I have this exact setup and I love it for what I do (no shotgun, only the cmc6uMK41 combo (or cmc641 for short). I was thinking the same thing about which mics to get and not wanting to upgrade later. The thing about my situation is I almost never shoot outside and I do mostly doc stuff with lots of interviews. I use a 20mm BBG on the rare occason i shoot some b-roll outside, and it does work. If you had to get only one mic the 641 would be the better choice that said, I think you may want to take Wabbit's advice. And modify as the follows

SD302
Gitzo 12' carbon fiber boom pole
KTek kzepp
KTek shock mount

AKG Blueline w/ CK93 hyper cardioid capsule $350 (double check capsule to make sure it is a hyper)
k-tek kssm shockmount (for hyper $110)
sanken cs3e shotgun $1300
two lectro 200 or 400 wireless with aftermarket lavs (b6, cos11 or mke2 gold etc)
another 1k worth of misc crap
 
Get the SD 302, SD 744T, save money by getting the Senn G2 wireless, and boom a senn 416.. If you are going outdoors, I would invest in a grip with blimp.. So you are talking about $9000.00 and you are set for a long time.. The schoeps is nice but not necessary. A sound guy that knows what he's doing is really necessary, but you should also be very familar with sound and how this equipment works, 1 week end with a good sound guys and some test shooting , and you will be good to go. Im not talking sound expert in 1 week, Im talking bout being familiar with the equipm..
 
Gaburbano said:
Get the SD 302, SD 744T, save money by getting the Senn G2 wireless, and boom a senn 416.. If you are going outdoors, I would invest in a grip with blimp.. So you are talking about $9000.00 and you are set for a long time.. The schoeps is nice but not necessary. A sound guy that knows what he's doing is really necessary, but you should also be very familar with sound and how this equipment works, 1 week end with a good sound guys and some test shooting , and you will be good to go. Im not talking sound expert in 1 week, Im talking bout being familiar with the equipm..
Click to expand...
and when you place the g-2 near the 744 you will realy know that something wrong :-)
 
Oleg 2 said:
and when you place the g-2 near the 744 you will realy know that something wrong :-)
Click to expand...


Unless you get the 'special' 744 Petrol bag with the 744t slot in the rear ;-)

I still get a little under 5 uV with about 4" distance from the 744t (twice the distance if 744 is in front pocket) which is usually fine for Lectros at 'baggable' distance to tx. With 1/4 the output on the G2, I imagine the effects would be significantly worse.

For the record I would suggest owning many pro wireless before I would concern myself with a portable multi-track TC recorder.

Cheers
 
brianluce said:
What do you mean by that?
Click to expand...

Hello Brian,

The 744T emanates EMF for short distances. This can cause a reduction of range if wireless receivers are in the same bag as the 744T.

If you have any questions (which mics, how far away is OK, What frequencies), contact Sound Devices directly. They are very open about the problem.

Regards,

Ty Ford
 
sound devices never found any cure for that issue which me and other pointed them about 3 years ago , they didn't change the design or stopped the production . , dont waist your time , buy other product if you need in bag work with maximum wireless range .
 
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