Barry_Green
Moderator
How's the conversion time to FCP? I've heard iMovie is supposedly very quick. Nice to hear you could do it all in FCP by itself.
Press Release: HMC150, "the new DVX"
- Thread starter Barry_Green
- Start date
Alex.Mitchell
Well-known member
Never actually tried it myself, but I'd assume that its at least as fast as iMovie because both are using the same Quicktime framework.
BobDiaz
The Professor
CASE 4: You've found that exporting to anything other than original native format OR .avi for importing to other projects almost always results in poorer quality video (even medium bit rate MPEG2 and QT) and especially if the "exported to file and imported to other project" has to have any filters applied that change color.
In fact, files that we exported from our G5's in MPEG2 looked absolutely horendous when trying to apply color mods when imported into other projects whereas if that same video was exported in native AVI or .mxf and reimported to the next project in that same native format the color effects/filters looked gorgeous and original.
EDIT: BTW, we did melt our only iMac when we tried to work with material that had been QT'd from a CineAlta900 and were trying to take the 3 dvd's of the movie and recode them into FCP studio and apply filters and titles and fried our mother board. We just never thought of the fan idea that Paul came up with . . although in our defense we never thought it would happen(
I'm going to use a term here, "FUD" = Fear Uncertainty & Doubt
Because that appears to be what you are doing here.
First you try to get people to question Solid State Recording as reliable. However, that attack didn't work because the evidence you presented was questionable at best and the amount of evidence that P2 and now SxS works very well is strong.
Now I see you're attacking the HMC-150 by trying to get everyone to believe that you can't save or export in any other format, except AVCHD and we know that that does take processing power or time.
IF you are going to do more work on a video, DO NOT export to MPEG-2, unless you use a very high bit rate. Then again, any export that you might have to re-edit should have a high bit rate anyway.
I have a SD video that started as a set of still JPEG images, edited in Wavelet format and exported to MPEG-2. IF I export at around 5 - 6 Mbps, there's a problem with banding. However, the exact same video at 9 - 10 Mbps shows no problem.
So, yes depending on the bit rate, MPEG-2 export might have a problem, but you are taking the information out of context to spread FUD against the HMC-150. I expect the camera to come out around September to November 2008 and someone like Barry or Adam will test it and report on it good or bad. I trust Barry, I trust Adam, but to me, it seems that you are trying to play a game with us and throw out misinformation. Please do us all a favor and stop it.
Bob Diaz
Daryl Auguste
Well-known member
Thanks Barry, definitly appears that the lead editors have some catching up to do. Edius sounds good for importing but its a consumer editor, so I can't picture using it due to lack of features. Is there a way of importing footage from Edius to FCP as AVCHD files, and would that be a time consuming process?
Bob Diaz, sorry to read that you feel that my objective comments, questions, experience, and search for the "best of the show" format and editing experience, appear as "attacks" but while some are eager to move into the next agenda of media world, I try to offer up some experiential concerns that are representative issues that would be amateurs or new professionals are totally unaware of just because they haven't been there yet. If that is called FUD then so be it and I guess yet another new term to add to the dictionary wherein I always thought that the term was a derogatory comment.
Nonetheless, I try to remain objective even if it seems that this flavor of discussion is against the grain and that that is because I think it is ludicrous to avoid considering the possibilities that when the market starts to fill with newer technology and the problems begin to mount, therein it will be too late to seek out an alternative. Again, all that I say is often from "experience" during the process of producing over 150 videos a year and on course at present to produce over 200 this year including yet another movie but in HD this year. We're not big by any term but turning out 3 to 4 videos per week on average teaches us a lot of things that others have yet not considered AND at this very moment we have yet another P2 project in house that is "invisible" but in a different way than previously AND we've found another P2 user in Cleveland that has a very similiar problem with their video and together we are searching for a solution let alone Panasonic will not advise me of the RAID issue either by email, direct mail, nor by phone. So, my question would be "why?" Fear that our knowing will raise questions and eyebrows? I don't know but I do know that if you or anyone else for that matter think that fear of losing solid-state video is not a concern then I can tell you that this thought is an academic result not imperical "real world" experience because loss of one's production when the result means your lively hood is a real concern.
Again, if my objective questions, comments, and investigation, appear as a FUD attack then I stand to say that they are NOT INTENDED as such but merely as one media producer to others seeking "real world" solutions and to look before leaping because the fall may be much further than initially thought.
Thank you for your support . . I loved those guys
)Barry_Green
Moderator
EDIUS Broadcast? A consumer editor? No way, it's a full-fledged broadcast editing package.
EDIUS Neo maybe, but not Broadcast...
FCP doesn't support AVCHD files. That's the problem. Until they rectify that (if they ever do), you're going to always have to convert the files to something else (either ProRes or AIC).
Daryl Auguste
Well-known member
I was referring to the Edius in the link posted. It went under the consumer editing program label. When converting to ProRes or AIC do you face factors like quality loss, or does everything look virtually the same. Do you need to purchase some can of conversion softwear to do this (If so are there any links to good programs), or is there a way I can do it using simply FCP/Imovie.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Any conversion from one video codec to another is going to involve loss (unless you're going to uncompressed, which you're probably not). The question is: is there enough loss to make a difference? AIC and ProRes are both pretty good, you shouldn't really see any degradation of the footage when using them.
I don't know how the conversion happens though, I'm not a Mac user.
I don't know how the conversion happens though, I'm not a Mac user.
kurtmo
Eats with 2 Fists
So has anybody used the Panansonic converter with existing AVC-HD cams? How do the file sizes / resolutions compare to the original AVCHD file?
Thanks
Daryl Auguste
Well-known member
Saw this post earlier and had a question. I own FCE as well, and you say it automatically transcodes the AVCHD file?
What would you adjust your import settings to? The HD options only seem to support the HDV Apple Intermediate Codec in 1080i60, 1080i50, and 720p.
BobDiaz
The Professor
On my system, 20" iMAC, I'm running FCE (Final Cut Express) HD 3.5.1. It supports HDV, but not AVCHD. However, it does support 10180/60i and 720/30p. My export is limited to Quicktime, AVI, and print to camera.
A friend of mine IS running FCE 4.0, but it may be a few days until I can go over to his house and check out his version. I'll post an update as soon as I can.
Just for the fun of it, I did take Kew Gardens in Winter by Philip Bloom (720/25p), import it, and export it at 1080/60i to MPEG-4 Quicktime. The 4 minute 40 second video exported in less than 20 minutes. Sorry, but I didn't time it exactly.
Bob Diaz
Daryl Auguste
Well-known member
It seems like it does have AVCHD support. However
"As a previous reviewer wrote. I should have purchased Vegas as well. Instead of import my camera's (hf10) true 1920x1080 AVCHD footage, it converts it to an anamorphic 1440x1080. Because of the impossibility of returning software, they should let people know this up front. To make a good software choice you need that info. I would have gone with Sony had I known. "
Review of FCEHD on Apple. And from what I've heard Vegas's AVCHD softwear is almost exclusive to sonys? I hope thats not true.
"As a previous reviewer wrote. I should have purchased Vegas as well. Instead of import my camera's (hf10) true 1920x1080 AVCHD footage, it converts it to an anamorphic 1440x1080. Because of the impossibility of returning software, they should let people know this up front. To make a good software choice you need that info. I would have gone with Sony had I known. "
Review of FCEHD on Apple. And from what I've heard Vegas's AVCHD softwear is almost exclusive to sonys? I hope thats not true.
Geez, I think that even Studio 11 and Ultimate from Pinnacle supports the AVCHD. Check It Out
That's how we edited the AVCHD that was sent to us and our machine really didn't have that much of a rough time handling it as people have been indicating. One just has to look around in the software to see how best to handle the rendering and the like. Our Avid puked the first time we pumped 1920x1080 P2 material and we had to turn all the graphics down on the viewers in order to even get through it, then we just deleted the project and changed from AVI to two other render options and wow, what a change in viewable/editable speed/view performance. YES!
Daryl Auguste
Well-known member
It really is a bummer that the biggest editors still have not come up to date with AVC-HD softwear. While it would be nice to upload the AVC footage directly and be done with it, I don't think I will be able to do that unless FC or Adobe get up to speed. Those are the two editors I'm decent at. Plus, it is VITAL for my editor to have 3 way color correct, something alot of more consumer friendly editors do not offer.
Barry_Green
Moderator
There's still five months before the 150 hits, plenty of time for the "A" team (Adobe, Apple, Avid) to get up to speed.
Daryl Auguste
Well-known member
Haha, I like the name A team. All I can do is hope as of now. I guess not much more is going to come out about the 150 in the next few months, so I'll just wait it out.
BobDiaz
The Professor
Panasonic's A-Team !!!!!
Panasonic's A-Team !!!!!
Here's proof that they are working on it....
:cheesy:
Bob Diaz
Panasonic's A-Team !!!!!
Here's proof that they are working on it....
:cheesy:
Bob Diaz
This is correct and don't take this as any form of disrespect but all of the A team are over $1,000 while "The Ultimate" is barely over a hundred bux AND has been out for over a year. What is the matter with these high techy's?
It's like Avid . . we've been an avid (pun) Avid fan since we first went on board but they have been dragging their feet for the last year and now they are saying that they are going to come out with a "nexgen" product as they are now dropping various apps and that the nexgen will be out sometime next year. Again, not being disrespectful but many of their loyal fans (like us) will have migrated to working solutions (like we did from all three of the A team) into faster, easier to use, and quickly up to date apps (like Edius). For crying out loud Avid has promised us an update price to Media Composer for nearly four months and said that it WILL happen after NAB . . that was . . two weeks ago? No update price yet! I'd be surprised if SpeedEdit didn't take this AVCHD also. It took P2 the minute it came out and in a drag/drop format. I was blown AWAY! At the time my Avid wouldn't. What??????
Barry_Green
Moderator
Nothing, really. Again, the kind of AVC-HD cameras that have been out have all been little consumer things. There hasn't been a professional AVC-HD camcorder yet, so the professional editors haven't bothered to support the format yet (excepting EDIUS, of course).
Hey, Avid just added 24P JVC support THREE YEARS after the HD100 was announced.
If you want quick support, don't look to Avid or Apple, or even Adobe. Look to the smaller players, guys like SpeedEdit and EDIUS. They turn products around much more quickly.