Proposal to Panasonic: upgrade option to HPX 170?

N

Nicholas Natteau

Veteran
Red recently proposed that those who own the Red One camera would have the option to trade in their Red One at the full price ($17,500) if they decide to upgrade to Red Epic ($45,000???):

http://www.red.com/nab/epic

As an HVX200 owner, I was very excited about the future HPX-170 to be released this Fall.

Why doesn't Panasonic offer HVX200 owners the incentive to upgrade to the HPX-170 by allowing us to trade in our HVX200s even at 50% of the original price?

The reason I say this is because I am very tempted to move up to the HPX170 especially after I read that the 170 would feature HDMI, SDI, more focus assist options, totally solid state, etc.

But the 170 when it comes out will still be the same price as the HVX200 was when it came out in early 2006: $5,995.

So why get the HPX-170, when you could wait a little longer (Spring 2009) and get the Red Scarlet for half the price and have the ability to shoot at 3k as opposed to 1080p!??? Not to mention that Red Scarlett would also be able to shoot anything between 1 and 120 FPS!!!

Am I the only one who is thinking this?

Also, I was desperately hoping that Panasonic would equip the HPX 170 which a much higher-res LCD screen than 210,000 pixels. Basically, no improvement on the HVX200 where LCD resolution is concerned. I traded in my Sony Z1U three years ago to buy my HVX200. But I so miss the higher-resolution screen of the Z1U.

I know many other people are longing to see Panasonic improve on the LCD resolution.
I do hope its not too late for Panny to give us a better LCD screen on the HPX-170.

All that being said, I love my HVX200. I'm just seriously considering not upgrading to the HPX170, and switching over to Red Scarlett for half the price next year, as the options looks so much better.

- Nicholas
 
Last edited:
Nicholas/John, you're not alone. I was very stoked to hear about the 170, and it is/was on my list to get - but with news of the Scarlet around the corner, unless there's a real valid reason to go for the 170 now and where you can't wait (and where the reason is good enough for the nearly double price of the scarlet) - I don't know.

Times are getting harder, and expenses are going up in almost every area (gas, food, lodging, air-travel, consumables) - can't really think of too many areas where prices and costs are going down. The 170 is very nice, but the playing field is changing pretty fast.
 
Ummm... Nicholas... what does trading in the HVX have to do with it? You don't seem to want the 170, you clearly want the Scarlet. You claim to be disappointed with Panasonic's offering... why do you care what it costs?


That said... the Red One was a unique approach to marketing and development, and even now is not considered a "finished product"... I don't think they've delivered on all the promised capabilities. (I'm not knocking RED here... everyone knew this going in to it, and they are indeed continually improving, and clearly now are trying to do right by their users). There are relatively few out there, mostly belonging to people who paid large deposits in advance and thus are sort of investors in the whole venture. Finally, the trade-up is not getting them a similarly-prices camera at a super-low price; it's getting them a discount on a camera that costs 2-3 times as much.

So, the situation is not at all comparable. And as has been stated, the HVX has held its value extremely well as far as cams go... sell yours for more than 50%, and buy whatever you want!
 
Companies release new products all the time.

I don't know what it is with these boards, but anytime Panasonic includes a new offering on an HVX (like a P2 card in the box) or now with them coming out with a new camera people think they are entitled to free or deeply discounted stuff. I don't get it?
 
Nicholas Natteau said:
So why get the HPX-170, when you could wait a little longer (Spring 2009) and get the Red Scarlet for half the price and have the ability to shoot at 3k as opposed to 1080p!???
Click to expand...

Well Scarlet's actual resolution (if we take the actual effective resolution of the Red One 2.8k (70% of 4k).), then Scarlet should be right around 2100 lines of resolution, not all that far away from 1080P. Red Epic should be right around 3500 lines if it also follows the effective resolution of the Red One.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, although I applaud RED's plan, I think that they put themselves in that corner by talking about "making obsolescence obsolete", and then coming out with a new camera.

Nobody makes us buy this stuff. It's a tool, and if the tool you buy does the job you bought it for, then there's not much room for complaining. A manufacturer owes you a quality product, period.

I'd like to think that our time would be better served by focusing on improving our skills as opposed to buying the newest gear. If you could deliver on a DVX or an HVX to your clients and make them happy last year, chances are it will make them happy this year.

Don't get me wrong, I like to drool over this stuff to. But while some advances in technology change a client's expectations (like 24P, or HD), I've never had a client say "Gee, I wish that had been shot on such and such"
 
There's not much point to this camera, as a few people understand here at least, because the Scarlett is a much better camera and 3K is a lot better than 1080p. Heck 2K is slightly better than 1080p. I can wait for the Scarlett to come out before I upgrade cameras. I just got the HVX200s like seven months ago anyway.

Unfortunately I think the resale value of the HVX200 this time next year is going to be really bad, I hope I'm wrong and I can get 50% of retail, but I'm not so sure about that. It's depressing because it's still really good equipment, the HVX200 takes nice images and I love the workflow, but the Scarlett will be a suitable replacement for me it sounds like. I talked with my DP about it and he was strongly recommending that route.
 
May be I'm not understanding your point, but I see the Scarlet as a much different camera, not necessarily a much "better camera." Indeed it is a year away. Right now Scarlet is just a block of wood.

2/3 inch sensors and 3K are great features. CMOS isn't necessarily so. It shoots RAW, so a lot depends on anyone's ability to grade.

A shoot capable Scarlet is not going to run $3K -- probably closer to $7K or $8K.

I agree that the Scarlet has great potential. RED has done well with its first release, but it has shipped less than 2K of the RED One, and the kinks still are being worked out through continual firmware updates. But good for them.

We'll see. And we have a while to wait.
 
why is everyone so crazy about the scarlet camera? we still have a year (I say probably more) before we see this camera and God forbid that it does not live to all the expectations because there is going to be a lot of disappointed folks out there that are waiting for this cam to be the best thing since sliced bread, I know a couple of folks that are saving money already to buy scarlet when they dont even know what the hell is going to be happening a year from now, plus scarlet's workflow is very different and demanding to what we are used to and some folks that I know that have tunnel vision with scarlet shoot weddings and concerts, should be intresting 4 hours of 3k footage, but we'll see......
 
JonathanLB said:
I talked with my DP about it and he was strongly recommending that route.
Click to expand...

Your DP recommended a camera that does not yet exist? I would switch DPs.

What is the point of this thread?
 
Mark Harris said:
Your DP recommended a camera that does not yet exist? I would switch DPs.

What is the point of this thread?
Click to expand...

Seriously, though.

I think RED's tactic is working: belabor sensible camera purchases over theoretical hardware. I guess if you can AFFORD to wait then more power to you.

200A is here, 170 is around the corner. Why even worry?
 
JonathanLB said:
There's not much point to this camera, as a few people understand here at least, because the Scarlett is a much better camera and 3K is a lot better than 1080p. Heck 2K is slightly better than 1080p. I can wait for the Scarlett to come out before I upgrade cameras. I just got the HVX200s like seven months ago anyway.

Unfortunately I think the resale value of the HVX200 this time next year is going to be really bad, I hope I'm wrong and I can get 50% of retail, but I'm not so sure about that. It's depressing because it's still really good equipment, the HVX200 takes nice images and I love the workflow, but the Scarlett will be a suitable replacement for me it sounds like. I talked with my DP about it and he was strongly recommending that route.
Click to expand...

I didn't know the Scarlet was hard-dated for next year. Can you point me to a factual release date? One that doesn't have an asterisk beside it?
 
Kholi said:
Seriously, though.

I think RED's tactic is working: belabor sensible camera purchases over theoretical hardware. I guess if you can AFFORD to wait then more power to you.

200A is here, 170 is around the corner. Why even worry?
Click to expand...

Dude, I am drunk. Don't mess with me. Wait, are you agreeing?
 
Indigo systems' camera captures an unprecedented 20K Image, allowing for total domination of the visual universe. We plan to release the camera late April 2009*.





*Planet Earth is Square.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top