BIG news from Letus!

jstunzi said:
I've seen footage from both. I like the Ultimate. However, I happen to know of a new unnamed adapter that i think is comparable and cheaper than the ultimate.
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Well I happen to know of a tripod that is as good as an O'Connor, twice as light and only cost 300.00 bucks. But I'm not telling....

Kdding aside, enough of the schoolgirl crap. What reason would you have for withholding that information? Are you under a gag order? Or just a big fat tease? Or is it a secret? Otherwise shut the piehole.
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
I do not think that ti will be close at all- the Ultimate will blow the P&S out of the water...

As soon as there is a production model I plan on doing a comparison between the two to so that all can see the differences. Should be a fun test to complete. :)
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Are you referring to the PS Mini or the Pro. If it' the mini that's easy to believe. If it's the Pro for B4 mount, that's a bold claim. It's the only adaptor out there that has no edge to edge issues, incredible sharpness, secondary iris and a truly "pro" build.
 
Tim Naylor said:
Are you referring to the PS Mini or the Pro. If it' the mini that's easy to believe. If it's the Pro for B4 mount, that's a bold claim. It's the only adaptor out there that has no edge to edge issues, incredible sharpness, secondary iris and a truly "pro" build.
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The mini for sure, and I think that this unit will seriously compete with the Pro as well. They are working hard to make The Ultimate out perform the Pro35. The B4 mount that have made for it is very similar to the B4 mount the Pro35 has with the secondary iris. right now the unit has the option of a D-Tap power source or AA battery, and I know they are working on getting it powered by that 7 pin plug (I do not know what it is called.). Which would power it the same way the Pro35 is powered.

I will know more when I get the two units side by side to each other, until then it is just speculation, but they are gunning for the Pro35 ......
 
The Letus Extreme / Zacuto presents an interesting value proposition for $2500 when paired with a $5000 HVX, yes. But an HPX500 / Letus Ultimate would have to provide a level of image quality so superior that producers (NOT cameramen) will pay for it, and frankly I do not believe producers will see enough of the difference to pay extra for it.. Sad, but true. On the other hand, that is part of the reason a lot of us are staying REALLY busy with 1/3" / 35mm camera rigs right now.

The whole reason the P+S Technik Pro35 adapter sold well in the beginning was so rental houses could keep their expensive 35mm lens inventory moving as their customers transitioned into HD. They did the same thing with the Mini35 as well. Here is why I do not think this new Ultimate product will affect established rental house inventory at all. All the majors already own Pro35's, the recognized brand. They will not be buying Letus's regardless of the price because their existing lens inventory continues to move along quite nicely with the HD / Pro35 combo. Unless they make a huge investment in additional $$$ film lenses, they don't really need any more lens adapters. The adapters served an interesting place in history to assist rental houses in moving their lens inventory at a time when cameras did not use film lenses. So, the cost of the $22K adapter was moot when having it meant there would be increased demand for your $150K lens package. See, it was never about the cost of the adapter. P+S knew this all along. Which is exactly why they won't sell many of these $9000 Letus Ultimate Relay Adapters to anyone.
 
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orangesaybananas said:
The Letus Extreme / Zacuto presents an interesting value proposition for $2500 when paired with a $5000 HVX, yes. But an HPX500 / Letus Ultimate would have to provide a level of image quality so superior that producers (NOT cameramen) will pay for it, and frankly I do not believe producers will see enough of the difference to pay extra for it.. Sad, but true. On the other hand, that is part of the reason a lot of us are staying REALLY busy with 1/3" / 35mm camera rigs right now.

The whole reason the P+S Technik Pro35 adapter sold well in the beginning was so rental houses could keep their expensive 35mm lens inventory moving as their customers transitioned into HD. They did the same thing with the Mini35 as well. Here is why I do not think this new Ultimate product will affect established rental house inventory at all. All the majors already own Pro35's, the recognized brand. They will not be buying Letus's regardless of the price because their existing lens inventory continues to move along quite nicely with the HD / Pro35 combo. Unless they make a huge investment in additional $$$ film lenses, they don't really need any more lens adapters. The adapters served an interesting place in history to assist rental houses in moving their lens inventory at a time when cameras did not use film lenses. So, the cost of the $22K adapter was moot when having it meant there would be increased demand for your $150K lens package. See, it was never about the cost of the adapter. P+S knew this all along. Which is exactly why they won't sell many of these $9000 Letus Ultimate Relay Adapters to anyone.
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You make some good points there, and I don't disagree with what you are saying. I wonder how this will all pan out- as I'm not sure if their goal is to get into rental houses or not, but rather directly to the consumer. Their price point is much more consumer friendly- although it may still be well out of the reach of many indi - low budget filmmakers.

If you go with the Zacuto mounts / support, you are definitely paying a premium, and it is quality gear, but I wonder how many people who are trying to stay on a tight budget will opt for this combination. The Letus support system is very similar to the Zacuto, and much more affordable.

It will be interesting to see how this ends up impacting the market- as they come in at a much more affordable price, but will it be too high for the mass market? I do admire them for trying to bring professional quality gear down to an indi / prosumer budget.
 
orangesaybananas said:
The Letus Extreme / Zacuto presents an interesting value proposition for $2500 when paired with a $5000 HVX, yes. But an HPX500 / Letus Ultimate would have to provide a level of image quality so superior that producers (NOT cameramen) will pay for it, and frankly I do not believe producers will see enough of the difference to pay extra for it.. Sad, but true. On the other hand, that is part of the reason a lot of us are staying REALLY busy with 1/3" / 35mm camera rigs right now.

The whole reason the P+S Technik Pro35 adapter sold well in the beginning was so rental houses could keep their expensive 35mm lens inventory moving as their customers transitioned into HD. They did the same thing with the Mini35 as well. Here is why I do not think this new Ultimate product will affect established rental house inventory at all. All the majors already own Pro35's, the recognized brand. They will not be buying Letus's regardless of the price because their existing lens inventory continues to move along quite nicely with the HD / Pro35 combo. Unless they make a huge investment in additional $$$ film lenses, they don't really need any more lens adapters. The adapters served an interesting place in history to assist rental houses in moving their lens inventory at a time when cameras did not use film lenses. So, the cost of the $22K adapter was moot when having it meant there would be increased demand for your $150K lens package. See, it was never about the cost of the adapter. P+S knew this all along. Which is exactly why they won't sell many of these $9000 Letus Ultimate Relay Adapters to anyone.
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Very good point. But, who says they won't sell to Rental houses to replace the P+S etc? Like it or not, those adapters lose way too much light. There's not a single person that's used one that doesn't hate the light loss. I hope someone does a side-by-side test so we can see how the two compare as far as edge-to-edge goes.

Edit here: And why wouldn't a producer pay for something that's touting half a stop of light loss? The light loss equates to time spent lighting in general. If the DP says "Hey I need this" then the producer, within means, goes "Hey I'm getting this." I've payed my Letus Extreme off twice over on renting it by itself because people 'round here want the light efficiency and flipped image. BUT, I can definitely say that the Ultimate and Relay needs to get into rental houses.
 
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TimurCivan said:
the p&S mini35 loses heaps of light, the pro 35 isnt so bad.
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Stop n'a half isn't it? Or am I totally off base as usual? Even then, that's still a lot of light (for some people, depends on what you're willing to deal with of course).
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
Their price point is much more consumer friendly- although it may still be well out of the reach of many indi - low budget filmmakers.
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Yes, you're right, I think it is.

I suppose I am generally pretty unimpressed with the equipment being offered on the market in general. There's so much emphasis on the image quality and not enough on the workflow in a professional environment. I have a lukewarm interest in upgrading from an XH-G1 / Letus Extreme combo because nothing out there offers the ease of workflow I am accustomed to with this setup, at the price points I am shopping in. Or any price for that matter.

With this camera system, I can offer producers the 35mm depth of field look and still retain the ability to slow zoom during an interview without breaking the bank. Can I really do that with zoom lenses on a RED? Wth an 18-55, no. It's not telephoto enough. And, their 50-150 isn't wide enough. And, the 18-85 isn't out yet. Could I do it on a Pro35 rig and prime lenses? No, of course not. There's no way to zoom in! Even IF I were to shell out the dough for a Preston Microforce (which is more $$), it would still not be affordable and the RED lenses may breathe during a slow zoom. Zeiss ZF's on a Letus Extreme and zooming with the internal video lens is a practical configuration for me and what I do.

I can connect to the "world" with the built in HD-SDI ports so that all post houses with Avid's can use my footage. I only hand off a tape at the end of the day. I don't have to "manage" a "digital assets library" or have expensive RAID storage connected to a UPS power supply just so my footage doesn't disappear in the middle of the night.

Using the TC output, I can easily connect a large LED display to the side of the camera so I NEVER again have to hear the question, "what is the timecode, mr DP"? Dual system audio and recording multiple channels at a time is a cynch too as the audio files will instantly sync with the video clips in Final Cut Pro automatically. I can also create BWF's and timecoded MP3's for transcription services that will match the actual timecode on the HDV tape. Producers really seem to like it when the timecode shows up on the transcription. That saves $$ in editing. And, it makes them happy. A whole lot happier than an extra half stop of sensitivity in the CMOS chip. They don't even notice that. But they do notice the transcription with timecode and it sets you apart.

I really wish I had a reason to upgrade, but as long as these big camera companies continue making wonderful CMOS chipsets that only record to proprietary non-linear formats which require careful data management, hard drives, blu ray discs, and solid state media that quickly loses its resale value, I am going to keep my money in the bank. Unless your system will make my life easier or more financially rewarding, I am not interested. That means solid state cameras and proprietary formats are a really hard sell to me. And, let's face it, why would I want to make life harder when what I'm currently selling (HDV/ 35mm) is incredibly easy and lucrative?

That's a rhetorical a question. Thanks for listening...
 
orangesaybananas said:
The Letus Extreme / Zacuto presents an interesting value proposition for $2500 when paired with a $5000 HVX, yes. But an HPX500 / Letus Ultimate would have to provide a level of image quality so superior that producers (NOT cameramen) will pay for it, and frankly I do not believe producers will see enough of the difference to pay extra for it.. Sad, but true.
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Well, yeah, but -- who says the Ultimate is aimed at the cameramen? Might be that they're going for the same market (rental houses) that the P&S Technik is aimed at. I mean, seriously -- what individual owns a mini35? I can think of two (and one of them sold his). We all know about the mini35, we've all heard about the Pro35, and I've worked on shoots with both, but they're ALWAYS rented. So maybe that's who Letus is aiming at?

All the majors already own Pro35's, the recognized brand. They will not be buying Letus's regardless of the price because their existing lens inventory continues to move along quite nicely with the HD / Pro35 combo.
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Well, interesting point. If the majors already own Pro35's, they'd have no interest in buying an Ultimate unless the Ultimate seriously outperforms the Pro35. And even then, they'd only really be spurred to buy it if their customers started demanding it. So Letus had better be aiming at the Pro35: anything less would make it an end-user-only product, but if they can spank the Pro35 (and the Pro35 is beatable) then they might open up a pretty decent-sized market for themselves.

Which is exactly why they won't sell many of these $9000 Letus Ultimate Relay Adapters to anyone.
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Well, maybe, or maybe not. Back when the mini35 came out, a decent owner-operator package was a $120,000 VariCam & deck. And when someone's plunked down that kind of cash, renting a Pro35 made sense. But the whole market's shifted and now we're seeing VariCam-caliber pictures out of an HPX500. And you don't need a deck at all. So someone can get into a VariCam-competitive market for $20,000 for HPX500+relay+ultimate, with a PL mount on the front. If so, why wouldn't they? The market has changed very much from when the Pro35 first came out. A Pro35 rents for around $400/day. So you'd need to know you were going to get 20+ days of work out of it in order for the Ultimate/Relay combo to make sense on a cash basis. If you know you're going to get 21+ days out of it, why not do it?
 
At 4500 it will sell if makes up for all the deficiencies of the current crop of low cost adaptors. Its market will be pro users who own their own gear. It's the price of a used HVX. It'll pay for itself in 20 rentals. Not bad.

Also, the amount of time and money people lose when their low cost adaptor goes down hopefully will be reduced by the better quality the Ultimate should offer. Some may debate me on this but I think they all have a high failure rate for a "professional" product. Most of them don't have the build for "pro use" (3-4 days a week/12 hours a day).

I still have build issues with all them from dust, to paint coming off when you turn the lens mount, to alignment, broken spindles/motors, battery pack falling apart, screws without shoes, lousy lens mounts (yes, my new improved LETUS Nikon mount does not lock on any of my lenses), motor failures, etc.... Those who say their have always worked perfectly don't use them enough.

I think all of the lowcost adaptors are still in varying degrees "prosumer" build. The PS is pure pro. There's a huge market that doesn't want to shell out for a PS but needs pro build / performance. People like me. That adaptor doesn't exist yet. If it does, loads of folks will hop on it. I'll be the first in line.

Tim
 
Barry_Green said:
why not do it?
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They are too fragile to cost that much. Aluminum is NOT always the right choice, guys!

No matter how hard they want to be a Pro35 competitor with better image sharpness and the multitude of adjustments they offer, I think it's the attention to the little things that matter. And they consistently have avoided even the basic fundamental levels of customer support by not even including a printed manual or instructions on how to clean dust (also known as the small black particles that flake off from their defective anodizing) from your ground glass. Turns out canned air works just fine, but why couldn't they put that on a sheet of paper inside in the box?

And what about that time they sent me a glossy finish Nikon lens mount that did not match the industrial styling of the other components in their system (matte finish)? Even with an updated spinning method, finer ground glass, backfocus adjustment, and spinning speed adjustment, it still looks like it is built remarkably like the previous model (Extreme). And, that, frankly, makes me REALLY uneasy about those guys getting this thing right. Doesn't it bother you that tightening the Letus Extreme to the camera ring dents in the aluminum underneath where you screw it? Is aluminum really the best choice for that part?

Whatever P+S did on the Pro35, it just "feels" right to me. It feels solid, robust, durable, and long lasting. None of these words describe the way I feel about my Letus Extreme. Sure, it does it's job, but it does not feel like a 9 thousand dollar piece of gear. If Letus Ultimate really wants to compete directly with the Pro35, they're really gonna have to step it up a notch. Of course, if they can make a product as durable as the Pro35, with more features and quality, I am sure they will be successful. But, I have my doubts, obviously.

EDIT: Just thought I would add that I DO want to see a product like this available. The right price for me is around $4000, not $9000. At 4K I would seriously consider upgrading to a 2/3" camera and a Letus Ultimate. That would be a killer rig for around $14k + batteries. I could even overlook my distain for their build quality and even my dislike of P2 cards for that rig. Here's hoping it is available soon... Thanks.
 
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I am waiting patiently for Dennis to introduce his B4 relay mount + 35mm adapter this summer.

Somehow I have a feeling that he is more in tune with the indie crowd's need and will price his product more appropriately. Not everybody here has a rental business.

The only thing ULTIMATE about the Letus Ultimate + B4 Relay package is the price.
 
Chenopup said:
The reference was based on the P+S, not the Letus.

cheno
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it wasn't really. It was actually quite confusing.

$9000 is a lot of cash but still enormously cheaper than the pro 35. All I can say is I am currently playing with the Ultimate and it is really quite special. The image quality is the best I have ever used.
 
Sure I have a rental business, but most of my rentals are when I go out with the gear as a DP. But they're usually two separate invoices. For short term gigs clients seem to want the latest and greatest adaptor if they can see the difference, just like cameras. I'm amazed at how non-camera guys know alot about adaptors. Right now the LEX is hot. Tomorrow, they'll be asking me if I have an Ultimate - guaranteed. I think they'll pay another 75-100/day if the difference is that significant. I gotta feeling it'll pay for itself quite quickly. Now if they'd only offer financing....
 
Tim Naylor said:
Sure I have a rental business, but most of my rentals are when I go out with the gear as a DP. But they're usually two separate invoices. For short term gigs clients seem to want the latest and greatest adaptor if they can see the difference, just like cameras. I'm amazed at how non-camera guys know alot about adaptors. Right now the LEX is hot. Tomorrow, they'll be asking me if I have an Ultimate - guaranteed. I think they'll pay another 75-100/day if the difference is that significant. I gotta feeling it'll pay for itself quite quickly. Now if they'd only offer financing....
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You're damned straight. The Extreme is definitely THE hotness right now around here and I'm already getting emails and PMs asking if I will have the Letus Ultimate and Relay available; uhm, yes sir.

If Dennis cranks out a Relay and Adapter with the same quality as Ultimate and Relay at a lower price then he'll be golden! If anyone does, it, as a matter of fact, they'll be golden.

The only other relay available costs as much as the Letus Relay just about and doesn't offer anywhere near as many options, as far as glass performance it's yet to be seen but I have a hunch it's gonna be stellar.
 
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