dory_breaux
Todd Wannabe
Hopefully they will come to their senses and put a longer lens on, or atleast make extenders avalible.
RED NAB NEWS THREAD: Scarlet pics are up
- Thread starter Jockomo
- Start date
John Godden
Well-known member
Sorry, I haven't read through this entire thread.
Has anyone mentioned/commented on the possibility that Scarlet will destroy the sub 10K market? Assuming this cam has decent optics and does what it claims I can't see how it won't totally dominate the indie/prosumer market.
That said, I can see where ENG shops will probably stick with their 'old faithfuls'. For everyone else.................... ??? Time will tell. I personally suspect that $3K will drift into something closer to $4.5K by the time this pup is released.
comments?
JohnG
Has anyone mentioned/commented on the possibility that Scarlet will destroy the sub 10K market? Assuming this cam has decent optics and does what it claims I can't see how it won't totally dominate the indie/prosumer market.
That said, I can see where ENG shops will probably stick with their 'old faithfuls'. For everyone else.................... ??? Time will tell. I personally suspect that $3K will drift into something closer to $4.5K by the time this pup is released.
comments?
JohnG
Joseph Stunzi
Veteran
John,
It has been mentioned here. My thoughts are that the Scarlet is a prototype. It has a fixed lens on it. As well as an odd user interface for camera adjustments. Everyone will have to wait and see what RED has in store. However, I thought it was funny that Redray (RED's media format) plays HD, 2K, and 4K. But not 3K. Kinda hints at the fact that 3K is an odd choice for a camera of this caliber.
It has been mentioned here. My thoughts are that the Scarlet is a prototype. It has a fixed lens on it. As well as an odd user interface for camera adjustments. Everyone will have to wait and see what RED has in store. However, I thought it was funny that Redray (RED's media format) plays HD, 2K, and 4K. But not 3K. Kinda hints at the fact that 3K is an odd choice for a camera of this caliber.
scarlett price
scarlett price
I dunno if people are still wondering if the scarlett is priced under 3k.
but here's proof, i think the dude works for red, or is some crazy guy that goes to conventions to talk hype
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkoHTjx8siM
scarlett price
I dunno if people are still wondering if the scarlett is priced under 3k.
but here's proof, i think the dude works for red, or is some crazy guy that goes to conventions to talk hype
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkoHTjx8siM
Luis Caffesse
Admin
That's Ted Schilowitz, "Leader of the Rebellion" at RED.
So yeah, you can take his word for it.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Hahahhaaha
snowleopard
Well-known member
Like he's running for VP?
rogar-Evil(DBG):John - It has been discussed. But equally discussed is that it may be over a year until Scarlet it out. And there's no guarantee the camera will ship on demand. And no guarantee it won't be in a beta state when shipping. Also discussed that if you want the full Scarlet package (batteries, cage, mattebox, CF cards) it's closer to $5k. But that's still a great price. Also, who knows what Sony, Panasonic, Canon and JVC will pull out of their hat in a year's time.
Really, we're in a waiting game. Though Panasonic aggressively put the pedal to the metal this time, it looks to me like NAB 2009 will be the year of change.
karapetkov
Well-known member
I was in the room when Ted from Red said $3,000.00.
The brochure saus you can count on the spec changing.
Jim said it was not going to compete with Red so I'm reading that to mean a fixed lens. Anyway you slice it if they put a lens mount on it then it will compete with Red.
The fan boys can all go gaga over 3,4,5K but the highest wide availability delivery still tops out at 1080. I got a feeling Scarlet will do 1080 very well.
The brochure saus you can count on the spec changing.
Jim said it was not going to compete with Red so I'm reading that to mean a fixed lens. Anyway you slice it if they put a lens mount on it then it will compete with Red.
The fan boys can all go gaga over 3,4,5K but the highest wide availability delivery still tops out at 1080. I got a feeling Scarlet will do 1080 very well.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
He also said it would have a fixed lens.
So I'm reading that to mean it has a fixed lens.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
very astute observation! that's our Luis!
snowleopard
Well-known member
You bring up something I've said before Konrad. I fully agree that 1080p is the most likely delivery medium for a vast majority of work in the decade to come. This is so true, and people kind of ignore it, or don't think about it. Much stuff is going to be shown on TV screens, DVD players, and projectors all in mass production, all that do 1080p. 4k projectors are going to be for people with money, or connections. 1080p is for the rest of us, and frankly, it's plenty good enough for me. I think it looks gorgeous (when shot properly).
The issue them becomes with Scarlet will shooting at 1080p only be a 1/2" or 1/3" window of the chip? Or will you end up shooting 3k with it to use the full chip, and have to downres to 1080p later?
The issue them becomes with Scarlet will shooting at 1080p only be a 1/2" or 1/3" window of the chip? Or will you end up shooting 3k with it to use the full chip, and have to downres to 1080p later?
Luis Caffesse
Admin
It's been said that they plan on allowing 2K shooting which would be done by windowing the sensor. So probably safe to assume 1080P would be done the same way.
Of course it's not safe to assume anything this early...
Barry_Green
Moderator
Windowed 1080P would be kind of lame. What you want is to shoot the full 3K and then downrez to 1080P in RedCine or other application; that should yield a full 1080P frame as high-res as anything else could deliver.
Red doesn't do scaling in-camera on the One, so don't expect them to do it on the Scarlet either. That'd have to be done in post. 2K on the One is mediocre, it looks like it's maybe 800 lines at the most; not bad, but nowhere near 2K. But 3K scaled down to 2K is incredibly sharp. 3K to 1080P should look equally fantastic (although you might want to do a minor window within the 3K first).
Red doesn't do scaling in-camera on the One, so don't expect them to do it on the Scarlet either. That'd have to be done in post. 2K on the One is mediocre, it looks like it's maybe 800 lines at the most; not bad, but nowhere near 2K. But 3K scaled down to 2K is incredibly sharp. 3K to 1080P should look equally fantastic (although you might want to do a minor window within the 3K first).
Of course it's not safe to assume anything this early...
wise words....
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
I cancelled two RED orders myself, my business partner a third... we both love RED and believe in what they are doing, so we were disappointed to have to cancel. It was just a matter of our clients not paying enough money to make the RED a good investment. We also saw them as something we could rent out and make money on one way or another, and our business plans changed and we didn't really think the rental option made sense unless we were going to rent ourselves with the cameras, and that makes us, I guess, DITs or something not businessmen and it was basically the wrong direction for us.
As some others have said, you need to have constant clients lined up to be able to afford the RED. I can buy the RED and every single accessory I need plus a second body, etc. with cash right now if I wanted, because I have that money set aside for the business, but does it make good economic sense? NO, it doesn't. I have to be reasonable not be like a kid in a candy store buying stuff just because I want it. So the Scarlett might be a great option for us, it would fit in our current budget and not be something that would break the bank.
I'm just wondering, I guess, what the Scarlett will be best for as far as shooting. It seems like we could do music video work with it easily, and probably corporate work just fine, not so sure about higher budget commercial work if we got it. I guess for us, we'll wait a year and see where we are. If we are pulling in a lot more projects of increasingly bigger budgets then we'll just get a few RED Ones as planned before, and it's just as well anyway because that camera is still basically in beta mode.
I am picking up a fully loaded (more or less, I'm not putting 32 gigs of RAM in it, LOL) Mac Pro this week with an AJA Kona 3 card and a CalDigit 2 TB external RAID system, so we'll be able to handle 4K footage if necessary. Not saying it'll be fast or easy, it isn't with ANY system on the market today from what I understand, but that won't be an added expense for us. We'll have the system that we can use and it will be fast enough with enough hard drive space to handle 3K or 4K footage. I don't think for us we'd have any need for the Epic now, I'd be happy with the RED One for sure. I don't think no matter how well we do we'll be in Epic budget range.
If I could be happy with a RED package for $25,000 I'd do it, because that camera rocks, but my problem is I don't do anything if I can't do it as well as possible, that's just a life philosophy. I love doing two-camera shoots whenever possible, and even if not, I want two cameras on every set, always two of the same type, I won't shoot without a backup camera ready to go in case of emergency. I keep a backup laptop for capturing as well. I have backup lightbulbs for the lighting equipment. There is nothing that isn't redundant on my shoots, I reduce the chance of things going wrong as much as I possibly can because in my experience ENOUGH goes wrong on every shoot not to worry about equipment issues, too. So there's no way I could afford to have TWO Epics. With the RED One, I priced buying one camera fully loaded with a second body as backup, not even ready to shoot, at about $115,000 including the fully loaded Mac Pro. So these $25,000 estimates, well, yeah if you rent all of the glass and support, etc. But that was for several zooms and a set of RED primes, which is what I wanted to save money to buy. Also to use a Bogen 503 tripod is fine with the HVX200, some DPs whine and moan about anything, but the DP I'm working with now is extremely professional and great at what he does, he thinks the 503 works fine. But for the RED? No chance. We need a tripod that matches the professionalism of the camera and that's $6,000 minimum. It's basically like changing every accessory and the entire workflow. Too much money.
I can't wait to shoot with the RED, though, it's going to be awesome but honestly I don't think I have the professionalism or right to shoot with a camera that good right now anyway. When I have proven to myself and others that I can do great work (with my HVX200s), then it'll be time to upgrade. Then I won't hesitate, once we're making more solid cash, I'll pull the trigger when it makes sense. Our clients for now don't need and aren't paying enough for anything better than the HVX200. Especially because most of the time it's either going to be shown in standard definition or on the Web, so honestly that money spent on the RED and all its professional accessories would only be useful so that I could have, for my own personal use, a much better, crisper quality visual for my projects. Oh yay. I still like my HVX200 images and they look great, the added difference isn't enough to justify HUGE amounts of money.
Bring on the Scarlett and let's see what happens! I'm excited...
As some others have said, you need to have constant clients lined up to be able to afford the RED. I can buy the RED and every single accessory I need plus a second body, etc. with cash right now if I wanted, because I have that money set aside for the business, but does it make good economic sense? NO, it doesn't. I have to be reasonable not be like a kid in a candy store buying stuff just because I want it. So the Scarlett might be a great option for us, it would fit in our current budget and not be something that would break the bank.
I'm just wondering, I guess, what the Scarlett will be best for as far as shooting. It seems like we could do music video work with it easily, and probably corporate work just fine, not so sure about higher budget commercial work if we got it. I guess for us, we'll wait a year and see where we are. If we are pulling in a lot more projects of increasingly bigger budgets then we'll just get a few RED Ones as planned before, and it's just as well anyway because that camera is still basically in beta mode.
I am picking up a fully loaded (more or less, I'm not putting 32 gigs of RAM in it, LOL) Mac Pro this week with an AJA Kona 3 card and a CalDigit 2 TB external RAID system, so we'll be able to handle 4K footage if necessary. Not saying it'll be fast or easy, it isn't with ANY system on the market today from what I understand, but that won't be an added expense for us. We'll have the system that we can use and it will be fast enough with enough hard drive space to handle 3K or 4K footage. I don't think for us we'd have any need for the Epic now, I'd be happy with the RED One for sure. I don't think no matter how well we do we'll be in Epic budget range.
If I could be happy with a RED package for $25,000 I'd do it, because that camera rocks, but my problem is I don't do anything if I can't do it as well as possible, that's just a life philosophy. I love doing two-camera shoots whenever possible, and even if not, I want two cameras on every set, always two of the same type, I won't shoot without a backup camera ready to go in case of emergency. I keep a backup laptop for capturing as well. I have backup lightbulbs for the lighting equipment. There is nothing that isn't redundant on my shoots, I reduce the chance of things going wrong as much as I possibly can because in my experience ENOUGH goes wrong on every shoot not to worry about equipment issues, too. So there's no way I could afford to have TWO Epics. With the RED One, I priced buying one camera fully loaded with a second body as backup, not even ready to shoot, at about $115,000 including the fully loaded Mac Pro. So these $25,000 estimates, well, yeah if you rent all of the glass and support, etc. But that was for several zooms and a set of RED primes, which is what I wanted to save money to buy. Also to use a Bogen 503 tripod is fine with the HVX200, some DPs whine and moan about anything, but the DP I'm working with now is extremely professional and great at what he does, he thinks the 503 works fine. But for the RED? No chance. We need a tripod that matches the professionalism of the camera and that's $6,000 minimum. It's basically like changing every accessory and the entire workflow. Too much money.
I can't wait to shoot with the RED, though, it's going to be awesome but honestly I don't think I have the professionalism or right to shoot with a camera that good right now anyway. When I have proven to myself and others that I can do great work (with my HVX200s), then it'll be time to upgrade. Then I won't hesitate, once we're making more solid cash, I'll pull the trigger when it makes sense. Our clients for now don't need and aren't paying enough for anything better than the HVX200. Especially because most of the time it's either going to be shown in standard definition or on the Web, so honestly that money spent on the RED and all its professional accessories would only be useful so that I could have, for my own personal use, a much better, crisper quality visual for my projects. Oh yay. I still like my HVX200 images and they look great, the added difference isn't enough to justify HUGE amounts of money.
Bring on the Scarlett and let's see what happens! I'm excited...
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Barry_Green
Moderator
Speculation is pointless at this time, as anything and everything about the Scarlet is subject to change, and is nearly guaranteed to. Massive amounts of brainpower and finger-typing are being expended in heated debates about the Scarlet, and it's all pointless. Jim has declared that it's not a democracy, the features are set, and they aren't going to tell us any more until they're ready. So don't even worry about it. It's probably at least a year, maybe a year and a half away. Check back in April 2009 to get a better idea.