MKH-70 and MKH-8050, what is next?

Baker Park

Baker Park

Active member
Hi, I would like to know what other mike would compliment a kit with a MKH-70 and a MKH-8050. I just received the 8050 and my initial impression is a good one. The MKH-70 was purchased for a special need (combative meeting coverage) and is very tight. My work is run and gun coverage of community development issues. On the street and meeting stuff. Is there a slot for another shotgun or are these two mikes similar enough in the real world where I would not gain that much? Also has anyone worked with the new Rycote Windjammer 10 kit for the 8000 series?

Thanks every one and especially to the old hands and the grumpy one. :grin: I have learned much from these pages.
 
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nice purchase on the 8050. im jealous. the technical rundowns i recall point to the 8040 as the equivalent of the cmc641, which is great. i would imagine the 8050 capsule to be a modular equivalent (or even superior at that price) to the mkh50.

generally speaking, if i was going to have a "one brand" system, you are holding the one i'd put my money on (schoeps price increases are putting them further and further out of my buying power. and im not the only mixer saying this - even the big boys are grumbling).

the 70 is a beautiful mic, and the 50 is a great tool for interior recording in more reflective/low headroom environments. these mics are NOT similar, they are different and complimentary to have both in a kit.

personally, i would say you are sorted. and although rycote are very overpriced, i cant deny that their products are good, and the jammer 10 is probably no exception...

im assuming you are running these nice mics into an equally nice mixer!
 
Thanks Tim. I have followed your questions and experiences for a long time. Long before I finally registered. Your location diaries have really helped me get the right mind set.

I use both mikes and am not locked into one brand at all. The 8050 was a financial stretch but seemed worth it. They are feeding a 442 to camera. (sony D-30). My concern is whether I would benefit filling that space between the 70 and the 8050. All my work is boom and wired so I am not having to make the investments in lavs and wireless that you face. Thanks again.
 
thanks for the kudos - i know we all share here because we want to advance our craft and have a knowledge network to fall back on. everything you share you end up getting back tenfold, so im glad this forum has helped you.

I dont think you need to be worried about filling that gap between the mics (say for example with a mkh60 or sanken cs-3e)... you own two mics - one for difficult noisy suituations, and one for quieter, more pristine situations that can double as a "close quarters" type mic - small rooms, low ceilings, on camera, hidden plant mic etc.

my advice would actually be to focus on location treatment now... instead of spending over $1k on another mic, spend only a fraction of that and buy yourself an armoury of acoustic dampeners - fat sound blankets, black carpeting, and gadgets to hang/clamp/support these materials where you need them. the results will be WAY more noticable - anyone here disagree with me guys? i doubt it.

i must admit that when it comes to exterior shoots, i've always found the long shotgun mic to be my first choice - if you're outside, why NOT use a bigger, more directional mic? its inside that i find things get tricky! i settled for the sanken cs-3e because it is a great all rounder (it sounds "longer" than it is, and still works well on interior shoots when i dont have time to change mic, like on reality and docu shoots)...

and feeding these to a 442 is perfect. and not needing to bother with wireless is even MORE perfect. and i wasnt trying to say you are brand locked at all... i respect your choices because they are GOOD choices, and i think the others here will too.
 
timapter said:
nice purchase on the 8050. im jealous. the technical rundowns i recall point to the 8040 as the equivalent of the cmc641, which is great. i would imagine the 8050 capsule to be a modular equivalent (or even superior at that price) to the mkh50.!
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Don't be, The 8050 is not a Schoeps Killer. It has a very sensitive LF response. Booming it requires a better than average suspension mount to prevent handling noise and even so, the LF sensitivity can pick up a lot of LF sound you really don't want.

I'm guessing they'll be coming out with a Schoeps Cut1 type 1 cut filter to help cut the LF before it gets to the mixer.

The foam pop filter is not hardy enough to prevent diaphragm ruffles when the boom is moved quickly, so you'll need another filter as well.

The EQ is basically a smiley face. Big Bottom, Big Top. I didn't have time to test it on overly sibilant voices or on gravel walks, but they might also be problematic.

regards,

Ty Ford
 
I would agree the 8050 is chunky on the ends. For the "tending to dull" community work it adds a little life to the party :-).

Question: How is a low cut filter ( cut1 type 1? if that is what this is) different from a variable high pass filter on a mixer?

And: How do you best use them together?

And: Do Rycote products, System-10 in this case, provide enough insulation from reasonable handling noise?
 
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Baker, you're going to use a MKH70 on a run and gun shoot? why? Are your camera shots going to be that wide? that mic is damn heavy to mix and boom.

I would sell the other mics and just use one, a Sanken CS-3E or even a MKH416. No one would know the difference. In your type of work, you need a mic that is more performance oriented and versatile.

Now if you are doing theatrical/scripted TV/commercial, then you should consider the quality of sound which the Sanken CS-3E would also be a good choice.

I was never a fan of the MKH50/60/70/816. According to one vendor, the 8040 is more in line with the MK41 cap.


Baker Park said:
Hi, I would like to know what other mike would compliment a kit with a MKH-70 and a MKH-8050. I just received the 8050 and my initial impression is a good one. The MKH-70 was purchased for a special need (combative meeting coverage) and is very tight. My work is run and gun coverage of community development issues. On the street and meeting stuff. Is there a slot for another shotgun or are these two mikes similar enough in the real world where I would not gain that much? Also has anyone worked with the new Rycote Windjammer 10 kit for the 8000 series?

Thanks every one and especially to the old hands and the grumpy one. :grin: I have learned much from these pages.
Click to expand...
 
ddent, I agree on the MKH 70 but is already in the kit. It has been ideal for picking one voice out of an agitated crowd throwing questions or comments to a podium. Would it be a first or second choise otherwise, no. Did I make the best choice? Probably not but it works. The MKH8050 is also in the kit. I am not a sophisticated audio guy or around any. I am reading the reviews and working the forums and the 8050 seemed a reasonable mic for what I do. My original post here reflects the fact that I know the MKH 70 is a very specialized mic hence what would best fill that space between these two?
 
Baker Park said:
I would agree the 8050 is chunky on the ends. For the "tending to dull" community work it adds a little life to the party :-).

>>>that remains to be heard. A "little life" can b e a bad thing, too.

Question: How is a low cut filter ( cut1 type 1? if that is what this is) different from a variable high pass filter on a mixer?

>>>The Cut 1 works between the mic capsule and the circuitry in the mic. That means the LF is scraped off before it gets out of the mic. That results in more headroom in both the mic and the mixer.

And: How do you best use them together?


>>> now that you know where the cut 1 goes, does this answer your question?

And: Do Rycote products, System-10 in this case, provide enough insulation from reasonable handling noise?
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>>>Haven't tried one yet.

The Joseph Dill Baker Memorial Carillo in Baker Park is really very nice.

I grew up on East Church and East 2nd street. Went to N. Market Street Elementary and St. John's. Capello's bakery aroma was amazing.

Regards,

Ty Ford
 
Baker Park said:
ddent, I agree on the MKH 70 but is already in the kit. It has been ideal for picking one voice out of an agitated crowd throwing questions or comments to a podium. Would it be a first or second choise otherwise, no. Did I make the best choice? Probably not but it works. The MKH8050 is also in the kit. I am not a sophisticated audio guy or around any. I am reading the reviews and working the forums and the 8050 seemed a reasonable mic for what I do. My original post here reflects the fact that I know the MKH 70 is a very specialized mic hence what would best fill that space between these two?
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you can add cs-3 e from sanken as something better or usefull then 70 in 90% of the time and can substitute any hyper for interals if you short on mic or dont have avbility to chanege .
 
tyreeford said:
>>>Haven't tried one yet.

The Joseph Dill Baker Memorial Carillo in Baker Park is really very nice.

I grew up on East Church and East 2nd street. Went to N. Market Street Elementary and St. John's. Capello's bakery aroma was amazing.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Ty, you left a great town. I live on the park by the pool and love raising my kid here.

I get the cut 1 and now understand the benefits.

Thanks Oleg, I closely read your comments. I appreciate the time you take on this forum.

Guys where is the verdict on the 8000 series now that the first flush is wearing off? I am happy with it for my level of production needs so no feelings will be hurt.
 
I believe the 8040 is indeed the senn version of the MK4 with both being cardioid, making the 8050 a cheaper alternative to the MK41.

I did a head to head of the 416, 81i, 82, CMC641 (and CMC64), CS-1, and even 4073 and highly preferred the 641. I can't compare it to the 8050 unfortunately. I can say that against the Neumann and 416 it was superior in the noise department, low end was cleaner with lack of any roll off, and it seemed to cancel anything adjacent better than the others. Strictly talking interior work here. I've noticed they are selling for $1500 now as a bundle if you look for it.
 
I have to second what has been said before - either get a 416 (you can get them used for a very reasonable price, if you watch for it) or a CSe3 (haven't seen too many used - you'll probably have to buy new and pay full price). Given the conditions you work in, I don't think you'll need much else in the way of mics.

Phil
 
i know you guys are saying get another mic, but i still reckon that is a pretty good package. if you WERE going to add another mic, it would have to be a short shotgun. and in my opinion, you'd want the cs-3e... or failing that, an mkh60 to match the 70 you already have.

after using the cs-3e, i cant bring myself to take my 416 out of the bag!
 
Avenger007 said:
I believe the 8040 is indeed the senn version of the MK4 with both being cardioid, making the 8050 a cheaper alternative to the MK41.

I did a head to head of the 416, 81i, 82, CMC641 (and CMC64), CS-1, and even 4073 and highly preferred the 641. I can't compare it to the 8050 unfortunately. I can say that against the Neumann and 416 it was superior in the noise department, low end was cleaner with lack of any roll off, and it seemed to cancel anything adjacent better than the others. Strictly talking interior work here. I've noticed they are selling for $1500 now as a bundle if you look for it.
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Other than the 8000 series being small diaphragm condenser mics of the same pattern, I don't think it's a sennheiser version of the schoeps. I had the omni and 8050 here for a short visit. I think if they had wanted to, they could have gotten a lot closer.

I don't think Sennheiser had "boom mic" in mind when they designed the 8050. With the pop filter that comes with it, you can't move the mic quickly without fluttering the diaphragm and as mentioned before, the LF sensitivity picks up boom handling noise very easily.

For other jobs, it may be a much better choice. I'd like them to consider making another capsule with tailored response for boom work.

Regards,

Ty Ford
 
the 8040 is actually the pattern that is being compared to the mk41 capsule, if you have a look at trewaudio.com - there is quite a lot of leeway and variation from brand to brand in what they determine as hyper or super cardioid, and it would seem that the 41 equivalent (or closest similar capsule) is the 40 in terms of pattern..
 
If you go for another gun, get the MKH 60 rather than the 416 - the 60 is identical to the 70 you already have, other than polar pattern. In comparison the 416 has a lower output, higher distortion and more noise.

The MKH 8040 are excellent and are cheaper in a stereoset (pair matched to within 1dB for both frequency response and sensitivity). I am just about to get these myself as well as an 8020 stereoset.

Otherwise, you could always add an MKH 30 (fig-8) for MS recording.
 
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