mixing footage from hvx and gs400

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dahon man

Member
hi all! im kinda repeating this post since I replied to one that I just realized was asleep already. If I shoot SD with hvx at 24p, how will it mix with footage from a gs400 at cinema mode?
I am planning to go on an extended trek and small cameras are a must. Main cam shall be the hvx, gs400 shall be for lowlight and underwater. Also, has anyone tried the portable solar panels as a power source for charging batteries? I shall be away from electricity for weeks at a time.
 
I would not use 24p if you intend to intercut video with the GS400, the cadence is different -- use 30p or 30pn on the HVX, depending on your video editor and shooting requirements.

I also have a GS400 and will shortly be filming a couple of dance performances where I intend to intercut video from my HVX200 and the GS400. In preparation for that, I have created scene files that match the GS400's WIDE and PROCINEMA WIDE mode.

The scene files were created by putting both camcorders into manual mode, setting them up in identical positions under constant artifical light, performing a manual white balance using a Lastolite White Balance target, and then shooting a GretagMcBeth ColorChecker. The video was captured using Serious Magic's DVC Rack, and then compared in split-screen mode. The scene file on the HVX was then tuned to match the GS400.

To be honest, the scene file for the GS400's WIDE mode is pretty good, but I'm not totally happy with my scene file to match the PROCINEMA WIDE mode yet. Since I have about two more weeks to fine-tune it I will likely revisit it. I will post the two scene files (in their current state) when I get home.

PS: Why use the GS400 for low-light? The larger CCD of the HVX makes it a better choice for that.
 
Alright, here are the two scene files I mentioned earlier:

GS400, WIDE MODE
Code: 
SCENE NAME :GS400 
00005000:  11  ;  DETAIL LEVEL: 3 
00005001:   8  ;  V DETAIL LEVEL: 0 
00005002:   9  ;  DETAIL CORING : 1 
00005003:  12  ;  CHROMA LEVEL: 4 
00005004:   9  ;  CHROMA PHASE: 1 
00005005:  10  ;  COLOR TEMP: 2 
00005006:  15  ;  MASTER PED: -1
00005007:  11  ;  A.IRIS LEVEL: 3 
00005008:   1  ;  NEWS GAMMA: OFF 
00005009:   5  ;  GAMMA : CINELIKE D
0000500A:   1  ;  KNEE: LOW 
0000500B:   1  ;  MATRIX: ENRICHED
0000500C:   1  ;  SKIN TONE DTL : OFF 
0000500D:   0  ;  V DETAIL FREQ : THIN
0000500E:   0  ;  OPERATION TYPE: VIDEO CAM 
0000500F:  19  ;  FRAME RATE: 30 FRAME
00005010: BE026801 ;  SYNCRO SCAN :

GS400, WIDE PROCINEMA MODE
Code: 
SCENE NAME :GS400P
00005000:  11  ;  DETAIL LEVEL: 3 
00005001:   8  ;  V DETAIL LEVEL: 0 
00005002:   9  ;  DETAIL CORING : 1 
00005003:   4  ;  CHROMA LEVEL: -4
00005004:   8  ;  CHROMA PHASE: 0 
00005005:  11  ;  COLOR TEMP: 3 
00005006:  15  ;  MASTER PED: -1
00005007:   8  ;  A.IRIS LEVEL: 0 
00005008:   1  ;  NEWS GAMMA: OFF 
00005009:   5  ;  GAMMA : CINELIKE D
0000500A:   1  ;  KNEE: LOW 
0000500B:   3  ;  MATRIX: CINE-LIKE 
0000500C:   1  ;  SKIN TONE DTL : OFF 
0000500D:   0  ;  V DETAIL FREQ : THIN
0000500E:   0  ;  OPERATION TYPE: VIDEO CAM 
0000500F:  19  ;  FRAME RATE: 30 FRAME
00005010: BE026801 ;  SYNCRO SCAN :
I will add to this thread when I revise the scene files. The non-PROCINEMA one is a good match as it is, but the PROCINEMA one needs more attention. If you are using a PAL model, you'll obviously want to change the frame rate 25 to match your GS400.
 
Thanks THoff! Yes, this forum is such a blessing! I currently am taking care and using a dvx (which I love) but am planning to acquire my own hvx and gs400 for the earlier mentioned purpose. As I dont have these cams yet, I am relying heavily on the web for info. Isnt the procinema mode a pseudo 24p? thats why I thought they would match better. As for lowlight, the info ive gathered is that the hvx is not a big improvement over the dvx (one of its blemishes) while research into the gs400 said that it is an amazing performer (according to pana3ccd).
 
If you don't have a GS400 yet, I don't think you'll find one now, at least not a new one. Used ones occasionally hit the market, but you'll have to be extremely cautious about where and how you buy it to avoid getting ripped off.

I have both the GS400 and an HVX200, and while the GS400 is very good for a consumer/prosumer camera, it can't compete with the larger CCDs in the HVX200.

The GS400 PROCINEMA mode delivers film-like images, but it isn't 24P/25P. It scans at 30 frames per second, pseudo-progressive (there are no interlacing artifacts), and uses a modified gamma curve for more dynamic range, but the cadence is not the same as the 24P from the HVX. The most seamless mixing will be when the HVX200 is set for 30P or 30PN.

Also note that unless you shoot SD, the HVX200 delivers a much more detailed image than the GS400, both in terms of the pixel count and sharpness due to the better color sampling of the DVCPro codec. This was very noticeable when I looked at the ColorChecker and examined the edges of the color patches.
 
Im in the Philippines and a dealer here says he still has a couple but the price is a bit high. Damn, your info changes things. I definitely plan to shoot 16:9 and output to something with a 24p cadence, hence the gs400 was I thought, kinda perfect. Since Im pretty sure 2 hvxs are out of the question, what would you suggest? The sony pdx10 is also 16:9, it could work, right? Lets say most of the footage is hvx SD 24p would mixing 60i footage (captured as 24p in an NLE) work? I know this is almost like a totally different post but searching has been fruitless
 
I haven't tried to match the HVX to the GS400, but I do know how to get amazing looking footage out of the little $1200 GS400.

(1) In the manual menu, turn down the sharpness to the next-to-the-lowest setting (I have to experiment with this one again as I have a new post flow, but this is what I had set a while back based on previous image tests).
(2) Turn down the brightness control a notch or two (depending on your exposure environment). This control is simply an exposure compensation for the auto-iris. Don't touch any of the other controls (The contrast setting, for example, will actually just move the maximum brightness level recorded. Some people think this can be used to control latitude. You don't get any more latitude!) The idea here is that you need to underexpose your scene a bit to prevent the wholescale clipping that occurs if you have to use the auto-iris. And likewise when you shoot manually you need to underexpose the scene about a half stop, depending on the highlights.
(3) Shoot widescreen INTERLACED. 60i is significantly less noisy than 30f and is higher resolution (for still portions of the screen). PLUS you get better low-light performance. Though highlights in 60i mode tend to clip earlier than in 30f (which is the reason for (2)).
(4) Use Sony Vegas: set your project to 23.97 progressive; add a supersampling curve to the master video track and set this to 2. This makes a BIG difference! Make sure the deinterlacer is set to blend fields. Combined with supersampling, the Vegas deinterlacer is pretty shockingly good (definitely better than the one in Combustion).
(5) Use the Sony Levels plug-in and gently bring up the mid-tones, lightly crush the blacks, and if you have any highlight nastiness, lower the contrast a tad in the highlight region by flattening out the tip of the top right part of the curve (though I've had mixed results with this last bit).
(6) Add a smidgen of *don't shootme* Unsharp Mask (I could send you some settings, though it really varies based on the footage). Beware that this will blow out your render times.
(7) If you're fanatic, a little bit insane, and don't mind REALLY blowing out your render times, and you have the latest Magic Bullet, then add the 4:1:1 deartifactor to the first slot in the effects series. (I've been able to get surprisingly good edges for chroma keys with this).

So this looks pretty damn good coming from a $1200 camera. Compared to the DVX shooting 24p, it's fantastically cleaner in lowlight (to the point where I cannot even match the footage without adding a lot of noise to the GS400 takes). For non-moving portions of the image it's also higher res than the DVX. And I'd challenge any of you, okay well almost any of you, :) to tell me that there is anything wrong with the 24p cadence.

I should add that if you're doing field work (and you don't have any wind), at less than two pounds, you can fly one on a Merlin all day. Actually I've never gotten tired doing this.

Anyway, hope this helps.
 
Thanks ahusain! You can still find the gs400 in several web stores for around $700 (unlike here in my country where its still $1200) so your approach I would think fits my ideas perfectly. The gs400 footage shall be for lowlight and underwater and as a cheaper backup cam, as long as the images look good, I'm going to be happy. Most important is the 24p cadence which I hope willl remain consistent between the hvx and gs400. Please post all the settings you may have used for varying situations (with the gs). My shoot with it shall be mostly ambient light thru bonfires and underwater. Let me clarify - shooting 60i then captured as 23.97 is better than the pseudo progressive procinema mode? (for the 24p cadence)
 
some comments:

(1) you should definitely try out exactly the flow you wish to use, end-to-end, BEFORE you start shooting the real stuff. don't take my word for it! i've never tried to match footage with the HVX (or shot underwater or by bonfires). you will also probably find your own flow issues.

(2) the gs400 has low-light response that isn't as good as the HVX or DVX, as you'd probably expect. whether to characterize it as "poor" is a subjective thing: i mean the camera is very small and cheap. the low-light response in procinema mode is something i don't like. don't know quantatively how much better you get in interlaced, but i'm guessing maybe a stop, plus the output has less noise.

(3) procinema on the gs400 is strictly 30fps. there's no sane way to get 24fps out of that without changing the playback speed (interpolating frames makes it look alien and gross). 24fps out of 60i isnt' perfect--some people will notice--but you could get away with it using the flow i described previously.

(4) reiterating part of point (1) above: you should really try deinterlacing 60i footage with vegas and see for yourself how you like it (vegas has a fully-functional 30-day trial).

(5) this is maybe obvious: if you're shooting a decidely different type of shot with the gs400 (as you said bonfires and underwater), then you don't have to match the look of the hvx's. it's not like a multi-cam shoot where every angle needs to be matched so that the illusion of viewing the same reality, albeit from different views, is maintained.
 
regarding various settings for various environments:

so the gs400 is nowhere near as tweakable as the dvx or hvx, and you can't get various "looks" like you can with the hvx and dvx. i set the camera as i described above and then while shooting adjust mostly only the iris. i almost always let the camera focus itself because: the lcd is not useful for this, it focuses fast enough, i don't use zoom much (partly because it's usually on a steadicam), and with the tiny imager mostly everything is already in focus. :)
 
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