Himalaya expedition: How to assure P2 first timer of reliabilty?

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daktulus

Well-known member
Is P2 with a HPX3000 plus HVX200 really the best way to film a Himalaya expedition? (not the peak of Mount Everest, but a 6 week expedition in the Himalaya mountains)

Is P2 really the best bet or would HDCAM be the better choice?
What are the arguments?
What are the experiences?

Which laptop for offloading is most reliable?

Is there a professional HPX3000 forum?

Is there a forum for filming trekking or just trekking?


All infos welcome.


(copy of post in HVX200 forum)
 
My only thoughts on P2 versus any tape-based recording would be your shooting ratio. Higher ratio work demands a pragmatic, field-tested workflow.

If you're like I am when I'm shooting expeditions, you might be surprised that you average two tapes a day per camera - a managable amount of footage to handle in the field.

You'll want to come up with a good data management strategy which minimizes offloads during shooting. Instead, take enough cards to enable you to offload once at the end of the day or at base-camp. I highly recommend using P2Genie for "automating" your capture process. Others might recommend P2CMS. For my money, P2Genie is the most intuitive, elegant and slim product for P2 capture.

Structure your file management for Camera A / Camera B; Date; Roll. At the end of day one, you would have a file structure like this:

cama\12jun08\001; 002; 003
camb\12jun08\001; 002

Conversely, if you're shooting high-ratio - say six tape days per camera - you should consider having a dedicated data management person. A good Logger/PA should be able to manage this amount in addition to their field logging duties, but for a one-man show, I'd recommend against it.

The P2 format is very robust and has proven more resilient in both very hot, dry and humid environments. I regularly use the F900, which is very sensitive to humidity (probably a non-issue in the Himalayas). Again, for more humid conditions, my recommendation on any tape camera is that you always load your first tape of the day and roll your bars prior to stepping outside.

e
 
Thanks.
It will not be a one man show. Probably 3 people, 2 cameras (HPX3000, HVX200), plus maybe 3 or 4 sherpas. The cameramen are used to Betacam tape workflow. There will be no electricity. Only solar power.

Which laptop and HDDs would you recommend for these conditions?

What is lowest temperature in which HDCAM tapes / P2 cards function?

Would you say P2 cards are more sturdy compared to HDCAM tape?
 
P2 cards are freaking bulletproof. Panny made a lot of hay out of shooting the Iditarod on P2. I would use an external SATA RAID 1 array for offloading cards. Assuming cameras are away from base camp, you'll need to have a "data wrangler" who'll work at night to handle offloads. You'll bottleneck somewhat with 2 cameras, not being able to offload while shooting. A PC laptop with PCMCIA internal would be good. Use a good data path to the RAID (eSATA, FW800).
 
I don't recall the exact thread/circumstances, but someone told a story on here a while back of shooting onto P2 with a HVX200 (I think) in the winter somewhere rather cold ... the only problems they had was that it was so cold that the liquid in the LCD of the camera froze so they had to use the EVF. - No problems with the P2 cards at all. At that temperature, you'd be looking at a very high risk of tape breaks.

Barry Green also reported that when he was on a Panasonic crew using P2 cameras to shoot the iditarod in Alaska, they ended up not needing/using the camera warmers/gloves they had along. As the cameras did just fine without them.

One of the first reports of the HVX200 & P2 beeing used inteh field was of someone who used it to film an explosion. Apparently the shockwave coudl be seen peeling the paint off the walls towards the camera before the camera shook a little as it was hit. Not a single dropped frame - just the paint off the walls.

A couple of monthes ago, someone posted a video of an unfortunate moment when their HVX200 fell off a jib during a shoot. The fall looked to be about 10-15 feet. Again, not a single dropped frame as the camera hit the ground and kept shooting.


I'd take P2 over tape any day when it came to mechanical/environmental reliability. I don't belive I've ever heard of a P2 card ever beeing mechanically "broken". Or suffering any loss of data due to environmental conditions. I can't say the same for tape, where head clog is common, and breaks happen in the cold.


P2 cards are also much smaller & lighter to carry than tape. And they hold more video each under most circumstances now too.

And P2 cameras are solid state, so take less power than mechanical (tape) based cameras.

- Mikko
 
daktulus said:
Thanks.
It will not be a one man show. Probably 3 people, 2 cameras (HPX3000, HVX200), plus maybe 3 or 4 sherpas. The cameramen are used to Betacam tape workflow. There will be no electricity. Only solar power.

Which laptop and HDDs would you recommend for these conditions?

What is lowest temperature in which HDCAM tapes / P2 cards function?

Would you say P2 cards are more sturdy compared to HDCAM tape?
Click to expand...

You'll need a charging station / portable powering solution regardless of what system you use. I would upgrade the HVX200 to an Anton Bauer Gold Mount so you're working on the longer-running, common (to the HPX3000) batteries.

Any laptop with PCMCIA slot should work for offloading to external drives. As for HDDs, I prefer duplicate Seagates when we have a place to semi-permanantly "park" them. Others might recommend USB bus-powered Go drives.

You would have to check the mfg. specifications for operating temperature ranges, but both tape and P2 cameras have successfully been used in Arctic conditions. As you know, Panasonic has been used extensively in the field - the Iditarod was one of their earliest cold-weather field tests.

I would absolutely choose P2 over tape from the reliability under extreme conditions perspective. Hands-down.

e
 
Thanks.

There will be no base camps, because the expedition will not travel on used tracks. In the evening tents will be used. Therefore for 6 weeks only solar power can be used to recharge the batteries, the laptop and the HDDs.
But a 220Volt solarcharger (mounted on a backpack) has been promised. I hope it charges even if it is cloudy all day.

Is a Dell laptop reliable enough under these conditions?
Are there special trekking laptops and HDD enclosures?
 
You might want to keep in mind that the HPX3000 is a power-hog, drawing about 41 watts, I believe (43 and 47 watts also stick in my mind, but I'm not 100% certain). Compare that to an HPX500, which draws about 19 watts.
 
Your right with the 3000 being a power hog! Picked one up yesterday, we are about to shoot for 3 days out on location with this camera. Spent a few hours today filming the kids around the house (as you do) I was pretty suprised just how power hungry this thing was.
 
My biggest concern is your having to put your charging solution squarely in the hands of the sun. I'd have those Sherpas pack in one of those Honda ~1k "inverter" generators and a couple of jerry cans of gas.

Imagine the logistics of finding that you cannot keep your cameras powered once you're halfway up a mountain. Keep the helicopter money set aside for extraction only.

By the way, you should secure the best TravelGuard insurance you can afford - it can be made to cover all of your equipment - just attach the rider when you apply online. We never undertake an expedition without one of their policies.

e
 
thanks, but I guess they dont insure Europeans...

I think about preferring the HPG -10 AKA P2 Gear over a laptop.
Can I make backups to 2 OTG drives at the same time?
Do the drives have to be FW or can they be USB?
 
They insure for Australia, Canada, Germany, Israel, Japan, NZ, Singapore, UK.

Are there OTG (bus-powered) FireWire drives? I'm not aware of any.

e
 
cwpost:
thanks, looking good!
Are they really completely bus-powered, do I just hook em up to the FW port and let the camera do the rest (HVX200 and HPX3000 in this case) without any ext. power supply? (Do they function like the Nextodi?)

Are they dustproof?


Can I easily exchange the HDD for a bigger one or is the case sealed?
 
Do I need 7200rpm or is 5400rpm fast enough for DVCPROHD transfer?

(Is there a data transfer speed difference with 7200rpm/5400rpm or is the bottleneck somewhere else?)
 
cwpost said:
Try the 7200rpm Rugged Drives by LaCie. They are bus powered by FW800, FW400, or USB. They are fast and so far very reliable. I've never tried them in below freezing temps or extreme heat. I love em.
http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=10722
Click to expand...

Are referring to powering your drive from a laptop? Because I don't think that the FW bus on the camera will power an external drive. I think you still have to have an external poser supply.

From the 500 owners manual:
• Use hard disks under the following conditions.
• Use a separate power supply (not the 1394 bus) to power the hard disk since this unit cannot supply power
 
You are right.

I need to power the drive from a different source. I think about powering with ext. battery, like APC, Amacrox or whatever.

Any ideas?

The other solution would be the Nexto CF Ultra battery powered drive, but I thought about a way to use one battery for many OTG drives.


Can I offload 2 32GB with the Nexto, how long does its battery last?
 
I just got back to Kathmandu this morning (night in NA) from a shoot at Everest Base Camp.

Battery power was the number one concern, we were on solar at base camp, and in the 'towns' leading up to it. Wired power was at least a 3-4 day walk from where we were shooting. Charging batteries was slow - slow - slow. Charging the offload computer (MacBook Pro) was even slower.

This was however my 3rd trip to base camp and I knew that these problems existed; so I had 6 back-up batteries for the computer, 7 Panasonic batts for the camera as well as 2 Anton Bauer 10k Batteries.

Cold was not really a problem, other than in the early morning.

We had 3 - 32GB, 2 - 8GB, and 2 - 4GB cards, we shot in 720p-24pn so there was lots of time between dumps.

Power at base camp was not the only problem; politics was, and luckily our film liaison from the Nepali gov't smoothed that all out. We ended up with better access than the crew from the BBC who were shut out completely. Moral of that story - Do your homework, and fill out the forms!

Once I get back to Toronto next week I will post a longer story covering the gear we brought and what it took to shoot here.

G.
 
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