Mixing HVX footage with HV20?

Hey, thanks for posting, Justyn. It's good to see what the mixed cuts look like. I like the video, btw. Thanks to the rest of you for pointing out what can be done to make it blend better. Sounds like you guys think it's doable to mix HVX and HV20 footage, although I wonder if it'll be a simple capture & edit on Premier Pro, considering the problem GraphicPlanet is having...
 
Since I’ll be shooting the HVX at 720 24PN and the HV20 at 1080 24, anyone know how I can merge the footage for PC using Premier Pro?

JES deinterlacer seems to be only for Macs. Thanks, GP, for bringing this issue up.
 
Okay, I figured it out. Import in FCP 6.0.2 and then send it out to Compressor to make it into Apple ProRes 24P. The footage works great. Now I'd like to import and encode at the same time from the camcorder so I can cut out the extra re-encoding.
It seems to bring in the footage as Apple ProRes if you want but not at 24P. Hmmm.
Also, with some grading I'm doing a pretty good job of making the HV20 footage look like HVX footage.
 
Greetings guys... I think that the other cameraman did shoot it in cinema mode and did some color correction for the most part, but its not going to match as close as people would like and what I liked per se. It does come out very flat, and has a lot of noise. It's a great camera but it can't compete with a 3 chip HD. Side by side with the canon A1 it can't hold up to that. I think it's good little cam but its just not on the same level which bummed me out as I was hoping to use it for a doc. It just also breaks down due to the 4:2:0 HDV compression whereas the HVX holds up very well. The guy who even edited this piece didn't cc any of my HVX stuff so that's raw naked camera shots there and his was cc'd and all of that..


If someone has some other side by side I'd love to see it and maybe I'm hopefully wrong. I'd love to pay 2 grand for two more cameras than paying 16 grand for two more HVXs... but boy do I love my HVX...


cheers all
 
Justyn, what did you use for pulldown removal on your 24p footage from HV20 before editing?

Here's a thread showing some footage comparing HV20 and A1 posted by Rawfa.

Re the 1080 vs 720 on Premier, apparently, you can ignore that issue and just import all the footage into a 720 project (assuming you want to go with the HVX settings) and select all the footage and "scale to frame size". The bigger issue seems to be removing pulldown.
 
To the original question: the HVX-200 is 1080 x 1920 while the HV20 is 1080 x 1440. To get the width right I assume the pixels are actually stretched horizontally or an algorithm fills in the missing content.

http://www.definitionmagazine.com/html/mb/hdv_basics.html

If you were using a ground glass style lens adapter I think you might be able to effectively mask some of the differences, but that's another thread...

Bob
 
Susan... I didn't cut the piece so I'm not sure. I think that he put it all on the same timeline in FCP and dealt with it all as the same.. I believe.
 
GraphicPlanet said:
Maybe one of you guys can help me out with this? I shot a doc using my HVX. About 70 hours of footage at 720PN 24. I had a HV20 as a B camera and I have about 14 hours of footage from it shot at 1080 24.

Now I'm editing in FCP on a DVCProHD 720 24f timeline and I need to get the HV20 footage into the computer.

I inputed the HDV footage through the latest Imovie at a full 1080. I never use Imovie but then I never use HDV either until now, but it seemed easy. I'm guessing Imovie is probably where my issues lie.

So I look at the HDV footage in my computer and its in AIC Format 1080 29.97. I thought it was 24P but maybe that's just with pulldown.

From there I put the the footage in a timeline and used the media manager to recompress the 1080 footage to Apple ProRes 720 24. FCP says it will keep the footage at 29.97 and recompresses. And when I put it on the DVCProHD timelime I get stutter and strobing.
Would anyone know the correct workflow for doing what I want to do?

Also, if you want to see the trailer to the doc you can see it here.
http://graphicplanet.blip.tv/

Thanks!
Click to expand...


I have the HVX and the HV20 although I've never mixed the footage in the same timeline. I use the HV20 and a Steadicam Merlin to chase my kids around and the HVX and a Steadicam Archer for work. Not to say that it can't work, I've been very pleased with the stuff coming from the HV20.

The HV20 shoots 1080 24p but you have to remove the pulldown to get the true 24p, otherwise it is still 1080 60i.

I've used JesDeinterlacer and it works fine. No it doesn't capture from the camera. You log and capture in Final Cut Pro as usual then apply it to the quicktime files on your disk.

Here is a recommended workflow from Apple for the HV20 that works great.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306389

Best,

Kevin
 
Justyn - as Kevin says, if you shoot HV20 at 24p, it records to tape on 30 or 60 (not really sure which - different people say different things). So to get the best footage, you need to remove the extra stuff (pulldown) the camera puts into the footage to make it fit onto tape. You can still edit without removing the pulldown but my understanding is it doesn't look as good.

I just got the HV20. I'm trying to figure out the best workflow for PC. Once I figure that out, I'm going to try mixing footage with my HVX.
 
Bob Gruen said:
To the original question: the HVX-200 is 1080 x 1920 while the HV20 is 1080 x 1440. To get the width right I assume the pixels are actually stretched horizontally or an algorithm fills in the missing content.

http://www.definitionmagazine.com/html/mb/hdv_basics.html

If you were using a ground glass style lens adapter I think you might be able to effectively mask some of the differences, but that's another thread...

Bob
Click to expand...


In NTSC land the HVX is actually recording 1280x1080 and in PAL land it's 1440x1080.
HV20 is 1440x1080 in NTSC and PAL.

I just shot some stuff on HVX bare and HV20 with brevis. Will post some footage :) (it'll be only SD encoded..sorry)
 
Bob Gruen said:
To the original question: the HVX-200 is 1080 x 1920 while the HV20 is 1080 x 1440. To get the width right I assume the pixels are actually stretched horizontally or an algorithm fills in the missing content.

http://www.definitionmagazine.com/html/mb/hdv_basics.html

If you were using a ground glass style lens adapter I think you might be able to effectively mask some of the differences, but that's another thread...

Bob
Click to expand...
Are you sure about the HV20 resolution? I just read the HV20 description on B&H and it says...

The VIXIA HV20 captures images in genuine HD resolution of 1920 x 1080, so you are shooting in real HDTV, all on a mini HDV tape.
 
Thanks all. If I edited a piece in FCP as regular HDV 60i, but shot it in the cinema 24p, then could I export out the 60i final sequence and do the conversion through compressor to get it back to the 24p. I did just do some 60i stuff and it just doesn't look very good at all.. see artifacting and just looks blocky. I'm hoping I can convert the edited version and not have to redo the clips individually and or re-edit the piece.


Thanks all and any and all info is appreciated.
 
i second the low light issues with the hv20, "abysmal" was a good word. when i first bought the hv20, i was on a high, until i used it indoors, lol. even just in indoor low light light the blacks have a ton of noise.

also, for anyone wondering, the low light performance on cameras is mainly attributed to the glass/lens size. the bigger the lens, the more light it can take in, but also the more light it needs. a small tiny lens like on the hv20 has to guess and up the automatic gain to match the amount of light a big lens can take in, thus smaller prosumer cameras will always have more grain than bigger lens cameras. for example, my canon XL1, made back in the mid 90s, SD camera, cant even film in 16:9, gets WAY less noise than the hv20 - brand new modern HD 16:9 camera. always keep in mind the physicality of the camera you are buying, not just the specs on paper. it's the same way with digital cameras...like a 2megapixel canon beating out an 8megapixel fujifilm, because canon has better glass. they might have the same exact sensor sizes, but the glass/ligh acceptance makes all the difference in the world. why do you think good lenses cost more than the actual camera bodys themselves.

anyway, the hvx200 downside to me is the 13x zoom. after years of the Canon GL/XL 16x and 20x zooms, the 13x was dissapointing...at a wedding in a big church i can no longer get that close up intimate shot from the back balcony, no that ive lost 7x...other than that, the hvx200 is far superior...glas i got it instead of the xlh1

::: connor
 
Justyn said:
Thanks all. If I edited a piece in FCP as regular HDV 60i, but shot it in the cinema 24p, then could I export out the 60i final sequence and do the conversion through compressor to get it back to the 24p. I did just do some 60i stuff and it just doesn't look very good at all.. see artifacting and just looks blocky. I'm hoping I can convert the edited version and not have to redo the clips individually and or re-edit the piece.


Thanks all and any and all info is appreciated.
Click to expand...

lol, eveytime i read a post by an FCP user, they are always taking about having to use compressor, and export, and reimport, or convert with compressor before starting a project or something else, it always goes on and on...

i wonder when fcp users will download the premiere pro cs3 trial and just see how much more flexible it is. like with fcp, you have to prepare all your footage to work with whatever timeline you have made for the project...in premiere pro, it doesnt matter what your sequence settings are...just throw in any kind of footage you want to the projects...dvcpro hd, hdv, sd, move files, avi files, anything, it can handle it all, no pre-conversion neccesary. also, with fcp you gotta render to view what you just edited, like if you add filters/effects to a clip you have to render it first, then watch it...make no sense, lol. save time with premiere 0 right when you drop a filter onto a clip in your timeline in premiere, it show up instantly in the preview render how it will look in its final form...no rendering needed. plus, the computer requirements with fcp are TWICE what premiere pro requires to edit the same kind of project...i just dont get why anyone still uses fcp...pain in the butt.

i mean hvx200 P2 files are native in premiere pro...no raylight codec or conversion or pull down needed, ppcs3 does it all for you, and can handle MXF file natively...

ok, sorry, ill stop my rant, i just dont understand why ppl hang on to old technology...apple hasnt rewritten their code from the ground up, like adobe did, since the original version of final cut, lol - and they desperately need to.
 
Hv20 importing question

Hv20 importing question

I shot some footage with my PAL HV20 as B cam in HDV 25p to mix with the HVX footage and now am having problems capturing:

it seems the only way I can control the HV20 and capture is by using the settings DV PAL
Whenever I try HDV settings in any combination I get "unable to locate the following external devices" or when I get a setting that seems to work finally when doing log&capture I get "unable to initialize capture device"

PLEASE: what is the correct capture setting in FCP 6.0.5 for the HV20 ? I searched the forums and read: HDV and HDV 1080 60i which in PAL would mean 50i but it is NOT working. The device is not controllable for capture UNLESS I tell it DV PAL Anamorphic

ohh and I read all about the pulldown stuff and the JEZ tool and all, but this PAL HV20 just doesnt like my FCP settings unless I capture in a simple DV PAL setup.....WHY ???

thanx
 
cineform?

cineform?

While I continue reading what others say about capturing HV20 24/25p footage to mix with other camera footage I see Cineform mentioned. I got the JES deinterlacer for free.
Am I right in the assumption that this does the job good enough?
Which Cineform product would be the solution to my HV20 capture problem?

http://www.cineform.com/neohdv3windowsmacdownload-2-1.aspx
:huh:

if I could at least capture HDV from my HV 20 ...sigh...
even this: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2410?viewlocale=en_US
doesnt help.
in Final Cut Pro, Log and Capture your clips shot as 1080p24 from the HV20
using the Easy Setup named "HDV, 29.97, HDV - 1080i60 FireWire Basic".

not here.....FCP gives me the "unable to locate the following external devices" over and over again. ONLY DV PAL works....

setting the HV20 to its correct output mode gives me the following problems:
Playback = Auto will display the film on HV20 display if I set it to HDV I get
Playback STD locked Playback is restricted.
and in this setting FCP logs a black image...
setting the playback to auto gives a display but FCP wont recognize the device

nobody here to help?
 
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