Switching from a DVX100A to a Canon HV30--Is it worth it?

Artman009

Artman009

Active member
Hey, everyone. I need some advice. I currently own a Panasonic DVX100A, and lately I've been considering placing it on eBay and using the money I get to purchase a Canon HV30.

Since SD seems to be going the way of the dodo, I want to start shooting HD ASAP. Originally, I was going to just save up for a HVX200 but I came across the HV20. Now, normally I'd have written off a camera so small, thinking it "too consumer" and not enough "prosumer", but after browsing around this site and seeing actual footage from the camera, I started to change my mind. Footage looked not only sharp and colorful, the 24p feature is what really sold me.

Also, if I were to get at least $ 2,000 for my DVX100A (I've got a bunch of accessories to go along with it), that alone would pay for the HV30 plus I could afford a few extras (namely a Canon WD-H43 wide angle lens and an extra battery or two).

My primary use will be to shoot short films as well as to attempt to shoot an entire feature film. By the way, I am already aware of the (minor) differences between an HV20 and HV30--basically the HV30 adds a 30fps mode and sports a black exterior. While I doubt I'll be shooting in 30fps (24p is what I'm aiming for) it would be nice to have it anyway.

So, basically, I'm curious if you guys think it would be advantageous for me to switch from my current DVX100A camera (a prosumer, 3CCD SD camcorder) for the HV20/HV30 (a consumer single CCD HD camera)?


Now, to be clear, I'm already aware of the features I'll be losing in this switch:

1) No XLR input/outputs--while I liked having them on my DVX100A, I have no problem recording high-end audio from my Sennheiser boom mike into a separate audio recording device or running it directly into a nearby laptop.

2) Easy 3:2 pulldown. Getting my DVX100A footage into 24p mode is a super easy but I've already read up on the slight difficultly 3:2 workaround involving getting the HV20 footage to be proper 24p.


But despite losing those things, I think the upgrade from SD to HD will be worth it.


Now for my concerns:

1) No manual focus ring--Since I'm used to working with the DVX100A, which has a manual focus ring, I've come to except to be able to switch focus from an object in the foreground to another in the background on the fly. Is this at all possible with the HV20/HV30? Even if it can't be done on the fly, so to speak, please tell me there is a way disable the camera from trying to automatically focus on whatever is in front of the lens.

2) The whole 3:2 pull down problem--as I mentioned earlier, I have read up on this issue and the hurdles you have to jump through to get this corrected. From just glancing at the threads, it seems like getting the footage to work with Premiere Pro CS3 and After Effects CS3 (I'll be doing all post work on a PC) is a bit of a chore. Now, I wouldn't mind this at all if I can batch convert all files before editing into proper AVI or MOV files but if it is something I have to constantly be fixing and messing with, then this worries me. So, are my concerns un-founded?

Please let me know what you guys think.

Thanks,
-- Art
 
Are more pixels going to make your story better?

You loose a host of very easy to adjust manual features on the DVX as well as imaging adjustment options.

Do you even have a way to deliver HD?

It's a buzzword that people love throwing around. HD is sweet but not (to me, and some others) worth the expense of a professional piece of kit over one that fits in your pocket but has more photo sites.
 
William_Robinette said:
Are more pixels going to make your story better?

You loose a host of very easy to adjust manual features on the DVX as well as imaging adjustment options.

Do you even have a way to deliver HD?

It's a buzzword that people love throwing around. HD is sweet but not (to me, and some others) worth the expense of a professional piece of kit over one that fits in your pocket but has more photo sites.
Click to expand...

No, I agree with you 100%. If the movie is boring or horribly acted or whatever, it won't matter if it's in HD or SD or even 2D, it'll still be crap.

No, my primary concern is the quaility of finished product and its shelf-life. I don't want to spend 6-12 months of my slaving to make the best feature film that I can and have it look like crap once it's released.

And, yes, I'm aware of the trade offs and also of the whole "HD is better because, well, it's newer" campaign. I'm pretty knowledgable when it comes to the tech end of things, so I'm not just blindly going into the whole thing.

I just figured for the price of a HV20/HV30, and the advantage of the higher resolution, it could be worth it. I dunno.

-- Art
 
If you are going to shoot primarily 24p go for HV20. You can save a lot getting hv20 vs hv30. The only difference being 30p and black color is just not worth it IMO.

As for DVX vs hv20/30, I think if you combine it with a 35mm adapter with the money you will save, you won't regret your decision.
 
Artman009 said:
No, my primary concern is the quaility of finished product and its shelf-life. I don't want to spend 6-12 months of my slaving to make the best feature film that I can and have it look like crap once it's released.

-- Art
Click to expand...

Released? As what?

Shelf-life? For who?

Realize that whatever you originated on ---film, SD, HD, DVX, HV20, etc..-- is going to take big $$$ for a "release."

If you're so convinced that you're going to make your best 'feature film' in a 6-12 month time frame and happen to know that it's going to be "released" then go with 35mm film. Because if you really are so convinced then you'll already have the $$$ fronted to you by Mr. Producer, aka Mr. Moneyman.

People, you gotta be realistic. Do your best with your DVX and if you hit the lottery or Mr. Moneyman says "yo, let's distribute this gold mine," then you can go to the best post house and get the best looking final product you desire. A film out from SD does work, and you already know the list of "released" films originating on SD.

HV20, DVX, SD, HD, whatever. Unless a TV station has already said, "hey, we'll buy if it's HD," or Mr. Producer says, "yo, I'll release it but only if you shoot HD," then what does it matter? Seriously.

If your "release" means DVDs to your pals then it really truly doesn't matter.

And if you make the film of the century, it will get released; SD, HD, or whatever.

In the meantime, selling your DVX for a HV20 is silly as it's all based on "what if."

Now, if you need a tiny camera to carry in your pocket, then that's a different matter....:beer:
 
If I were you I would keep the DVX. Save some money and buy the HV20. I think in the long run your DVX will be worth more to you then $2000. And, you have a really good 2nd camera.
 
I have a 35mm adapter and love my HV20, however, it is no DVX. I repeat, no DVX. The DVX just plainly delivers a nice 24p image (no rolling shutter artifacts, gorgeous color). Yes, the HV20 kills it in terms of vertical resolution but I really regret selling my DVX. I really miss the pro controls. There is no reason to sell a DVX. Just save up the money to afford the HV20, after all it is quite affordable.
 
It's a toss-up. I own both a DVX100a and an HV20, but use my HV20 (and a companion Sony HC3) most of the time. The image quality of the HV20 is superlative. Once you go HD, it's tough to go back.

The HV20 has a mic input. I use an AT897 combined with an AT8341 XLR adapter cable and get good sound.

When using my HV20, I miss DVX manual controls...and to a lesser extent, Panasonic color & gamma. As for 24p, it's a pain on the HV20 for the reasons stated. I don't know if HV30 firmware has added pulldown flags, but suspect not. So if you are buying to shoot 24p, you might as well budget for Cineform NEO HDV also ($199 if you use the discount code "HV20-8").

I would not pay extra to get an HV30 over an HV20 (unless you REALLY want 30p). You can pick up an HV20 these days for appx. $650, which must be the camcorder deal of the decade. Apply the savings towards your WD-H43, Cineform, etc.

As for myself, I'll probably move to a prosumer HD camera later this year, but am waiting for NAB to see what's coming (ie. perhaps a Canon XHA1 successor, as well as the HMC150 from Panasonic).
 
I have a hv20 and it is sweet! If you are shooting movies go with the hv20, 35mm adapter, lights. You want to put your money on the screen. With that being said the hd dvd war is over and bluray won. So I don't think your movie will end up on film but bluray is a strong possibility. Plus the hdmi port and prores can make your effects work easy.
 
Nik Manning said:
With that being said the hd dvd war is over and bluray won.
Click to expand...

This is an early statement. There are other factors than studios supporting one format such as the price. If HD-DVD (Toshiba) keeps these low prices, with the units sold the Hollywood studios cannot ignore the potential. You can get an HD-DVD player for $120 with 7 free HD-DVDs. Also the next game console from Microsoft will most likely have HD-DVD player built in just like ps3. It looks like bluray won after WB made the switch but it can change.
 
smithy said:
You must keep up with the news...Walmart and Sams Club has just dumped HD-DVD. When you lose this type of retailing giant..it pretty much over.

http://triangle.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2008/02/11/daily40.html
Click to expand...

I am keeping up with the news but this doesn't change the fact HD-DVD players are cheaper than Bluray players. Samsung just released a dual format player. Why would they do that if the war is over? I don't see any news indicating amazon.com is dropping HD-DVD. Getting an HD-DVD player for nearly the same price as the upconvert dvd players plus 7 free HD-DVDs is still very attractive for a lot of people. What I am saying is if Toshiba can keep up these prices there will be enough units sold for retailers and studios to reconsider. According to Ronnee Sass, Vice President of Publicity and Promotion of WB, "It is not foreseen, but not impossible." to release HD-DVD titles after may 31st. So they are leaving the door open.
 
Why would any studio want to do dual format. It is really not cost effective to offer both. Especially since most of the studios have adopted the Blu-ray format as their own specific needs. Not to mention doing both would most likely cause the need pay double for dual licensing to both sony and Microsoft/toshiba camps. The only one that is still on the hd-dvd bandwagon is dreamworks...

Also Toshiba is now considering abandoning the HD-DVD format all together.

read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD

http://gaming.monstersandcritics.com/xbox360/news/article_1391372.php
 
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Well, this is SORT of relevant to the thread, but not completely. The fact is that he's considering futureproofing his movies with some sort of HD output. Blu-ray or HD-DVD really doesn't matter for this topic at hand. I'd stick with the DVX for a while and wait to purchase a camera this year as HD cameras are being released left, right and center from lots of companies.

-Kegan
 
smithy said:
Why would any studio want to do dual format. It is really not cost effective to offer both. Especially since most of the studios have adopted the Blu-ray format as their own specific needs. Not to mention doing both would most likely cause the need pay double for dual licensing to both sony and Microsoft/toshiba camps. The only one that is still on the hd-dvd bandwagon is dreamworks...

Also Toshiba is now considering abandoning the HD-DVD format all together.

read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD

http://gaming.monstersandcritics.com/xbox360/news/article_1391372.php
Click to expand...

This is just a rumor and not confirmed by Toshiba. Only time will show what will happen. It is not easy for Toshiba to pull out of this so easily. There are a lot of units sold and they've invested so much. If they do that they may also face law suits and it will effect the company's reputation.

Also an advice, don't use wikipedia as a source to make a point. Anyone can edit what is written there. A Sony official can edit the contents of HD-DVD page as far as I am concerned.

And I agree with Kegan, we shouldn't argue this in this thread.
 
First intelligent response to this perennial conundrum :dankk2:
Jacquot said:
Released? As what?

Shelf-life? For who?

Realize that whatever you originated on ---film, SD, HD, DVX, HV20, etc..-- is going to take big $$$ for a "release."

If you're so convinced that you're going to make your best 'feature film' in a 6-12 month time frame and happen to know that it's going to be "released" then go with 35mm film. Because if you really are so convinced then you'll already have the $$$ fronted to you by Mr. Producer, aka Mr. Moneyman.

People, you gotta be realistic. Do your best with your DVX and if you hit the lottery or Mr. Moneyman says "yo, let's distribute this gold mine," then you can go to the best post house and get the best looking final product you desire. A film out from SD does work, and you already know the list of "released" films originating on SD.

HV20, DVX, SD, HD, whatever. Unless a TV station has already said, "hey, we'll buy if it's HD," or Mr. Producer says, "yo, I'll release it but only if you shoot HD," then what does it matter? Seriously.

If your "release" means DVDs to your pals then it really truly doesn't matter.

And if you make the film of the century, it will get released; SD, HD, or whatever.

In the meantime, selling your DVX for a HV20 is silly as it's all based on "what if."

Now, if you need a tiny camera to carry in your pocket, then that's a different matter....:beer:
Click to expand...
 
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