"I ****ING HATE YOU" – a film by SABI

Luis Caffesse said:
I think you definitely made the right call on that one, Zak.
I'm looking forward to seeing the full length cut of this.
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i'll post some outtakes too. so that everyone can see a demonstration of the mad genius, John T. Woods, at work. in a take for the scene that was cut, he fell off the landing inches from a giant cactus -- everyone just froze in a holy sh*t that could have been really bad moment, then collectively starts laughing.
 
i'm glad you brought up "the line", matt. i'm a bit of a douchebag because I admittedly find a certain amount of joy in taking a huge dump on certain guiding conventions of filmmaking. okay, the line -- this again, is something that became an issue by cutting out the first act because it was suppose to add to the perceived chaos, in contrast to a scene you haven't seen yet. which doesn't excuse it from this version, but i'll explain my purpose for crossing the line.

I was abiding by it for the first few of 15 takes (we re-positioned the cameras every take or two to get the illusion that we had something like 6 or more cameras in there). but then it occured to me in the moment that I could use it, intentionally, a few times... for the following reason...

in the "missing" first act, we would have seen Carol in her own world, when Ron comes to her place to lure her back to his. The color scheme is much more neutral in her world, balanced... but also lacking in color saturation a bit, a little dull. and the framing is (still from the POV of an amateur cameraman) much more ordered with complimentary over the shoulders and profile shots -- which is echoed in the brief moment where Ron admits he hid the mug and she shows a bit of affection toward him and his "scheming". we cross it again the instant he starts to lose her and she realizes it's time for her to leave.

okay, so like I said, her world being more neutral and balanced is in deep contrast to Ron's apartment, which is completely out of balance. it's chaos. the light is artificial here, where it was natural at Carol's. It is pushed intensely in one direction -- all yellows, oranges and some reds, and way over the top compared to where we just came from. the hallway shot at the end harkens back to the look of Carol's world when she's at the top of the staircase reconsidering her decision to leave.

anyway, that's what motivated the numerous line crossings. in this version, there is no contrast between "normal" and "out of whack", so "out of whack" is perceived as the norm. and that's not what was intended. so the piece suffers for that. not that any of this was pre-planned, I just started making conscious decisions like this as we shot. the short version of this post would have been I wanted to marry the visual aesthetic to the personality of each character. thanks so much for bringing it up, i LOVE talking about technique as much as I like talking character and story.

thanks again! I appreciate you giving IFHY another look and continuing to post about it. it's more than I could ever ask for.

MattinSTL said:
As promised I'm watching the entries at least twice, and some of them many times... so if I'm to offer some real criticism beyond "I loved it"... which I still did... I think you almost crossed the line a few times... I mean cinematic-production wise. He comes out of the kitchen camera right, but she is already camera right and needed to land camera left... like a pan and turn to face him, but she stays mostly cam right and he comes out cam right, so to get the two shot you have to jump him over. In that midsection there are a few cuts where she doesn't seem to be looking in the right direction... because she has sort of an aloof nature it still works but my perception within the script was that she was looking at something specific, and logically that would be him, but with the cuts she doesn't really appear to be looking at him. Am I making sense? No matter... I loved the flick.

The fencing epee was a great little touch... I like the various ways you made him appear immature but by the end he was also fun and charming... which sells the caring looks from her.

I loved feeling the desperation in him... I found the woman captivating and attractive... with her big eyes emoting so well. The two looked appropriate for each other... I just really enjoyed it. So take my "criticisms" as a sign of respect for your work... I'm going to try really hard to leave everybody something meaningful which means looking for something to criticize, but I love this entry.
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disjecta, i'm glad the performances were able to cut through the veneer and resonate with you. as you know, part of the "experiment" was to play with the idea that the camera was tied 100% to being in the moment with the characters. i wanted to strip away all the "professionalism" from this one to see what kind of an effect it would have on the point of view. i think what we get is a very organic unity between the content and the camerawork -- because the camerawork is rarely able to anticipate its subject, just like the characters are rarely able to anticipate each other.

the most significant example of this is the hurried re-focusing on Marion/Carol as soon as the song ends. my purpose for utilizing that in the cut was to demonstrate that the filmmakers and their subject were intrinsically linked... that one affects the other, so that when she experiences a significant emotional turn, it has a disruptive, physical effect on the camera.

clearly, by doing this, the camerawork is raised to a level that requires just as much of the viewer's attention as the characters and story. this is unconventional, i know. and a big risk was that I would be asking too much of the viewer by expanding the focus of their attention to include "the canvas" and not just "the painting".

thanks again for all the wonderful insights. i take them to heart and the feedback and insights here are essential to learning from this project.
disjecta said:
Zak,

I keep coming back to this film because I have a love hate relationship with it. I think it's brilliant in many ways because the sheer reality and believeability of it really works for me. The constant dropped jaw of the actress was almost funny but in a sad way. There were many elements in the atmosphere you created. In some ways, I didn't feel like she was safe in that room and that the guy was going to possibly seriously hurt her or even kill her. He seemed either completely unbalanced or just a complete a*shole, I couldn't tell which but that added to the fascination for me as a viewer. I think it's a real skill to be able to convey an extremely tense situation that's on the fringes of comedy. Even in the last scene, I was expecting the guy to throw something at her or do something drastic.

The whole film had a "21 grams" feel for me in terms of the look and partly how it was shot. Even though you didn't really have an overall POV, I felt like I was watching the film from the side of sanity, in other words, I was seeing it how the female character was processing the absurdity of this guy.

What I didn't like about it was the camera work. It felt to me like it was shot by someone who didn't know how to properly operate a camera. The frenetic aspect of it seemed over the top for the situation. The constant jerkiness definitely added to the tension and I really do understand what you were going for but it was too much for me. The other thing that was irritating was the constant focus searching. My feeling is that about 80% of the shots were out of focus and it was distracting rather than stylistic. My point is that I was too focused on what the camera was doing rather than concentrating on the story itself.

The performances were excellent and I have watched this three times just because I enjoy the acting so much.

I think you did an admirable job and, having watched everything else at this point, your film is in the top three for me.
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I'm pretty new to this site, so I don't know if I feel quite qualified to make the following statements, but just as an independent audience member, there are some things that bothered me about this. While overall a very enjoyable and obviously very well shot (regardless of the experimental shot searching) piece, my main critique actually comes from the song. I realize this puts me as a minority of one, but it is what it is.

The acting is stellar throughout, and even into the beginning of the song. John especially was fantastic at conveying the sad desperation and the mild shame once his hiding the mug was discovered. The beginning of the song was fantastic at revealing the pent-up anger and frustration in a safe way. Once the song switched over to the love half was when I felt it began to sag a little.

I just had trouble understanding, or rather believing, that after struggling to find an excuse to leave the whole time, Marion suddenly came to terms with everything and no longer had any hard feelings and that everything was ok between the two of them after his song.

I wasn't really sure what you were trying to convey with that final exchanged glance between the two, more on Marion's side. While I could identify with John's perspective, having said what he needed to say and maybe getting a little closure, Marion seems, if anything to take a step back, away from moving on.

Maybe I'm completely off base and am just making myself looking like a complete asshole, but overall this is a very good project, and I think some really good things came from the approach you took for making this, leaving it feeling very real for the most part. I'm excited to see the extended version of this.

Great job
 
good fun! Well acted and scripted. I enjoyed the song immensely :-)

I'm constantly suprised at the level of entries in this festival. One of the best hooks I've seen so far and a great way to express the theme. I laughed out loud which is rare (unless the film is appualing in which case I'd laugh then too - but in this case it was because it was actually funny)

Also one of the most orange entires I've seen in this fest :-)
 
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dannycoxdidit said:
I'm pretty new to this site, so I don't know if I feel quite qualified to make the following statements, but just as an independent audience member, there are some things that bothered me about this. While overall a very enjoyable and obviously very well shot (regardless of the experimental shot searching) piece, my main critique actually comes from the song. I realize this puts me as a minority of one, but it is what it is.

The acting is stellar throughout, and even into the beginning of the song. John especially was fantastic at conveying the sad desperation and the mild shame once his hiding the mug was discovered. The beginning of the song was fantastic at revealing the pent-up anger and frustration in a safe way. Once the song switched over to the love half was when I felt it began to sag a little.

I just had trouble understanding, or rather believing, that after struggling to find an excuse to leave the whole time, Marion suddenly came to terms with everything and no longer had any hard feelings and that everything was ok between the two of them after his song.

I wasn't really sure what you were trying to convey with that final exchanged glance between the two, more on Marion's side. While I could identify with John's perspective, having said what he needed to say and maybe getting a little closure, Marion seems, if anything to take a step back, away from moving on.

Maybe I'm completely off base and am just making myself looking like a complete asshole, but overall this is a very good project, and I think some really good things came from the approach you took for making this, leaving it feeling very real for the most part. I'm excited to see the extended version of this.

Great job
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no don't undercut it, it's all valid!! and appreciated. no one who puts as much thought into their feedback as you did should be considered unworthy of the discussion. welcome to the boards, dannycoxdidit... and thank you so much for taking the time to watch the piece and to mindfully post your impressions. my own impression of that final moment you described is that Carol rediscovers some shred of warmth (or whatever you want to call it) from their old relationship, which was brought to the surface by some very familiar behavior that she once knew intimately. and that yes, maybe she was taking a small step back... does the ring mean she was engaged to someone else? maybe. has she stopped dismissing her history with Ron, allowing it to inform her choices for the future? I think so. definitely.
 
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I found this piece really interesting. It reminded me of what Professor Ray Carney called "a slice of life," and believe you me, he made me watch a whole bunch of slice of life films in school. The orange color scheme wasn't for me, but I thought the camera movements perfectly fit. A real piece of art.
 
Haven't read through this complete host of posts, so I may be repeating many similar sentiments, but WHOA, DUDE ! VERY NICE. it struck me as very J. J. Abrams and Company . . . even the song. Wasn't sure where it was going . . . but ended up well. Shooting and cutting style superb. One of my definite favorites, even with the overboard title. THANKS for making this film. W.Bro
 
I loved this.

I remember when you first said you were going to be doing some improv and I thought that was brave, but it totally paid off.

Your two actors were wonderful. The shots were great.

My only complaint, the editing was far too quick for me. At times, I just wanted it to linger on an actor and give them some space - a moment to breathe.

But that is a small complaint for a beautiful film filled with subtext and nuance.

Very well done.
 
i haven't read anyone else's review so pardon me if i repeat anything...

that said, nice film! i love the colors you used, great edge and feel, especially so when the the woman leaves the apartment, that stark difference between orange and not orange is awesome- don't know if you planned this, but strong!

as for the story- totally free form, or was it? not sure. the beginning was amazing, i really believed the guy was desperate for the girl to come over to his apartment so that he could have his last ditch effort to win her back. his line about her " going out later, with someone?" ( i paraphrase ...) was great. too cool. she looked like she had a rash while he faked looking for the mug. the camera click was creepy too, but it fit, it was creepy. it was desperate. i was hooked. awesome...

then the song. okay. this changed things. why. well, because he goes off... and this is fine if he was the one that was having a tough time with her, but i just didnt believe he would ever go there if she was the one who dumped him. maybe this song is an inside joke between the two, but then as a viewer i gotta know the joke, somehow. maybe they said " i f'ing hate you," to each other instead of i love you, i don't know. otherwise it looked to me like the balance of who wanted to stay and who wanted to leave just switched from one to the other, and for no apparent reason. i could see him singing that song in a way as to fend off any defensive feelings for not being wanted by her, but then she would've left at the first hearing of " i want to kill you" or anything like it. why would she stay there and listen to him? she wanted to run out of there and now she wants to stay? the hell for?

the acting is great though even with that song, this was good. real good. it took chances and it went nuts, f'ing cool, man. you made me want to root for something. thanks.
 
hoz,

your reaction to "the song" is exactly what I love about this process. the idea that we as filmmakers can put something up there for everyone to drape their own subjective ideas on is what elevates this artform beyond mere "entertainment" -- it serves as a mirror to our own experiences and understandings of life. thanks, man! I appreciate you taking the time to write up your thoughts!

btw, i think you'll appreciate the contrast between "orange" and non-orange contrasts even more in the longer version, as its meaning is a little more apparent there.
 
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Awesome. Original. I think it does so many things that short films should do (and which feature films often cannot), and that is to be a bit experimental and stretch the conventions and reveal a filmmaker's individual stamp. And you did that here. Loved the quick editing and the performances. Made me think. Conclusion: you're the real deal. Loved it.
 
Woo Hoo! I got quoted on your sig! Awesome! (and I mean that comment. I loved what that song does for your film!)

I am looking forward to watching it again... I am ALMOST done with these 50 entries! LOL!

Great film, Zak!

-Ted
 
*Spoilers Watch Out You Crazy Poeple*

I'm just a sound guy, so you may not find my critism or positivity towards your film meaningful, but to me I was "eehh." Visually, I kept wanting the camera to pan up or something so I could see more in my mind, it just kept bugging me for some reason. But I understand for the need not to.

As for the "song" I liked it, catchy, but not something I would have done personally, though i have done something similar, I guess I would just have to be in his situation.

I like the red tones in your film.

But then again what do I know, I'm just an audio guy.

Good Luck to you all,

KenV
 
I purposely try to avoid reading the threads or comments before I watch the films and give my review. This is not an exact science of course, sometimes I take a peak randomly through the thread, or read a snippet of a comment here and there, but basically I don't want to be influenced by either the filmmaker or other members. I want to experience the films as an audience member with little or no expectations. I try not to think like a "filmmaker" and analyze the technical stuff, ie. "How did he get that shot?" I believe comments from an unbiased audience are most helpful, at least to me.

Having said that, I really didn't like the shaky cam. I thought it was so overdone and attention getting, that I was distracted from what really mattered, and that would be the relationship of your two leads. If the camera was intended to be a 3rd character in this, why? It seems this is a simple story about a couple who have reached a crossroads, and I like the direction you went storywise. But all that movement and cutting... aaah! I don't think it was motivated.

I understand that this was a stylistic choice, but I would love to see how this would play if the style was less flamboyant.

Props for taking a chance. Also very cool credit design.
 
KenV and Maximus thanks a million for watching and posting. it means the worold to us as filmmakers.

KenV, since sound is your area of expertise, i'd love to hear your impressions in that arena as well.

Maximus, now that you've posted your unbiased thoughts, I'd love to know you read the rest of the thread. for me, the filmmaking process doesn't exclude the community discussion that surrounds it. I think any discussion lends itself to discovering and understanding more about the film, and thus, offering a more rewarding experience -- regardless of whether that discussion changes or reaffirms our initial impressions.

Thanks again, guys.
 
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This is a very, very slick and contemporary film.

Its starts out as a non-film (hear me out).... but as you said about hacking off the first 3 minutes, when the situation starts to play out, especially as he picks up the guitar, our minds start to fill in the subtext. Perfect.

You made all the right decisions in IFHY. Colors, actors, editing... Inspirational.
 
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