What do your clients prefer: HPX500, HPX2000, or HDX900?

T

TwinCitiesShooter

Active member
Price differences aside, I think it would be interesting to have freelancers in ENG, commercials, and the like report in on what clients are most often looking for: HPX500, HPX2000, or HDX900? I prefer the P2 workflow, but most freelancers here in Minneapolis are still tape-based. I've heard it's the same in D.C. Do you find clients more often seeking the P2 HPX2000 or tape-based HDX900? What kind of reaction do you find the HPX500 receiving? Do some clients feel it's not high-quality enough, or are they OK with the image and drawn to the price-point?
 
I have one client the requires me to shoot with at least a hvx. As for Chattanooga we have one tv station shooting already on the the standerd def camera that uses p2 cards and another going to be on the hpx 2000 and hpx 500 by spring.

We to mainly corporate work and have found the hvx and hpx gives us and our clients a great end product.
 
I know the Fox news channel here in Minneapolis is using P2 cameras, I assume the 500 or 2000. As more news channels (hopefully) switch to P2, I would think that would spread to freelancers too, though I do know freelancers who are leaning towards XDCams. Just speculating, but maybe some freelancers are waiting to see what direction their local industry goes in 2008-09...
 
I am DC and Los Angeles based. All my clients are almost asking exclusively P2 formats over tape and prefer the HPX-3000. For lower budget clients we fly them with the HVX-200.

The reason is it costs less; no deck rental, instant full rez playback or editing on location, durability (P2 card are very rugged) and felixibility (delete bad takes).

I used to carry a modulus transmitter and a DV deck on location to record takes on my steadicam for dailies or proxy viewing for the director. Now I just carry a monitor and play off the camera full rez.

Cheers,
Emre Tufekci
www.productionpit.com
 
I think it would be a waste to get a 2000 or 3000 as a freelance rig unless you already have the existing clients for it. The number of people that will pay the money for a 2000 or 3000 rig is very slim, whereas the 500 is much more budget friendly and will be appealing to a larger number of people. You can get into a nice HPX500 Setup for around $12k - $15k (using SD lenses), and even cheaper if you are migrating from a full size SD camera (have existing lenses and sticks, batteries, etc.). The 500 makes for a very nice and easy transition to the HD world without shelling out the extra $$$.

When thinking of purchasing a freelance rig, you need to consider a lot of things from a business standpoint. Your ROI (Return on Investment) is very important, meaning you need to be able to purchase a rig that will pay for itself in a specified length of time so that you are actually making a profit as a freelancer. Like I mentioned before, who is your client? Are they already asking for the more expensive cameras and are they willing to commit to things if you have it? The last thing you want is a $60k + rig sitting out there not getting used. If you can rent a $500 per day camera or a $1500 per day camera and both will get you to where you need to be, then which one are you going to choose? So many people make their rental decisions based off price, so you'll be able to rent that HPX500 in theory, more often to a broader number of people. If the demand is there for the bigger guns (2000 and 3000), then that is when you buy them, but not until then. The 2000 and 3000 would be very expensive hobbies if you don't have work lined up for them. Although the 500 is still "expensive" by most people's standards, you'll most likely be able to pay for it much faster than you will with the others.

We get calls almost every day for rentals on our 500's and they won't even be here until this Wednesday or Thursday. We pretty much have them booked solid for the ext few months. Nobody has ever asked us to date if we plan on getting the 2000's or 3000's because they simply are not needed.

So weigh the benefits of both. If money is no problem and you have the clients to justify getting the 3000, then I say get it. If you're stepping up from full size SD "hoping" to get clients, the 500 is probably the way to go.

One more thing to think about is that there are a huge number of HVX200 users out there. The next logical step for them if they are going to be "renting up" would be a HPX500, so that broadens your base even more. I think the 500 is more than acceptable to 90% + of the people that have HD needs, especially when even most of the time the 200 is acceptable. Of course you'll get people out there that won't accept it for one reason or another, but many of those might require a Sony camera, doesn't matter which Panasonic it is. Those aren't your clients anyways. But there will be times that we need 500 shooters and a need to cross rent 500's, and I think that will be a much easier task rather than securing multiple 2000's or 3000's.
 
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I completely agree with Kit, we had our customer base set for the 3000 already. We were using the varicam for such clients, for more base style operations the 500 is a smarter choice for return in invesment.
 
C'mon Hunter, Sony? Blaaahhhh blah blah... LOL

Too many people just don't look at this like a business, but when you are making an investment like this to do certain things, you have to look at it as a business or you'll be $h!t up a creek financially. You have to know who your customer is and who will be utilizing the services you have. People that fail to identify that will fail in business 95% of the time.

You also have to keep in mind that the camera needs to make money for you right now. With the rate of technology increasing at an ever faster pace, There's going to be something new sooner than you would like. Look how fast 1080p has gotten to where it is - almost all new consumer televisions are 1080p equipped, but it will be something else again very shortly in the future, maybe 2 years? All of a sudden we'll start seeing 2k, then 4k, etc. Companies need to keep advancing the technology to give people a reason to keep buying their products. If they don't have something new, sales decline and that's not the point of business when you have a product. Everything else soon follows, especially cameras because they need to be able to record that footage.

I don't think the cameras of today will be around for an extremely long time. The Varicam has been around for awhile and is a staple in digital cinema, but I doubt that some of the cameras of today will be around like the varicam was/is. It was ahead of it's time, before the consumer technology curve caught up, but purchasing a Varicam now would be a hard decision because of the demand for 1080p and it not being able to do it, as well as it's tape based workflow.

Red is another good example of staying ahead of the technology curve, although for most of us it's not practical. Not a bad price, but still not streamlined to where it needs to be for the average shooter. I'm sure it will be around for awhile, but I'm sure it will be replaced with a new version as soon as sales start to slump with it and there is nowhere else to go with it.

My whole point is this: Buy what you need and have demand for now, because there will always be some great camera / invention / product just around the corner. I always hear these people say "Wait until NAB because the next great thing will be here". They are right to a degree, but the "waiting" part is the hard time I have with things. If you wait, and you need something, then you are not making the money that you could be making in the meantime. Waiting almost a year for products to hit the shelves is a year wasted that you could have otherwise made money with. When you get to that point, there will be another "wait, the greatest thing since sliced bread is comming...yada yada yada...". If you want that when it comes, sell your current stuff that you bought or are buying then, but don't ever wait for something to come if you could be making money with what is at your disposal now.
 
Agree completely with "buy what you need now", ROI, etc.

Disagree that "the next new thing" in video is just a few years down the road. I see no reason that formats (720, 1080, *not* P2 vs XDCam, etc) haven't stabilized for quite some time to come. There have been massive investments by broadcasters in their chosen HD formats, HD penetration in consumer homes has a ways to go before matching SD penetration, and consumer demand for end-to-end HD is not as high as demand for HD sets (ironic, that).

I felt very comfortable buying into the 500, knowing that the formats it shoots and the media it uses will outlast the camera itself (well, who knows, maybe I'll still have it in my toolkit 15 years from now). Regardless, it will have been well paid for many times over. Hopefully I'll be in the wonderful position a few years from now to be *adding* to my toolkit, not throwing away my current hammer.
 
EditingFX said:
Agree completely with "buy what you need now", ROI, etc.

Disagree that "the next new thing" in video is just a few years down the road. I see no reason that formats (720, 1080, *not* P2 vs XDCam, etc) haven't stabilized for quite some time to come. There have been massive investments by broadcasters in their chosen HD formats, HD penetration in consumer homes has a ways to go before matching SD penetration, and consumer demand for end-to-end HD is not as high as demand for HD sets (ironic, that).

I felt very comfortable buying into the 500, knowing that the formats it shoots and the media it uses will outlast the camera itself (well, who knows, maybe I'll still have it in my toolkit 15 years from now). Regardless, it will have been well paid for many times over. Hopefully I'll be in the wonderful position a few years from now to be *adding* to my toolkit, not throwing away my current hammer.
Click to expand...

Sorry that you disagree, but it's the truth. Look at past trends like 480p, 720p / 1080i. Now we're at 1080 30p. It went from flat CRT's to Plasma to DLP to LCD. I wouldn't be surprised in the next year or so 1080 60p coming aboard, and within 2-3 years 2k and some new form of Flat Panel. It's inevitable. Companies that sell consumer electronics need to create a demand to keep their products selling. What else would support growth? Not coming out with new products means less money in the bank for most consumer electronic companies.

And it doesn't help that technology is rapidly progressing, faster and faster as time goes on. Even in the professional market. I doubt P2 will be around as long as DV or Beta was. Things will get smaller, more robust, more efficient. I cannot predict the future, but from trends in the past and where we have come in the last 10 years, formats have changed faster and faster. It's inevitable.

But I too am comfortable with our multiple HPX500 cameras that we have purchased. I think they will be a better buy than the JVC HD-110's we purchased last January and have already sold. The 500 is a great value and we'll be happy with them I'm sure for the next 5 years. We'll re-evaluate things then.

Kit
 
"Look at past trends like 480p, 720p / 1080i. Now we're at 1080 30p."

My point is that these formats were all defined by the ATSC, and are set in stone.

I think we're many years away from the next major revamp of the standards.

This would actually be a good question for Mark Shubin (video tech wizard).
 
I have a question along this topic as well. How does everyone here promote HD production for their business? Especially seeing as most stations, atleast around here, do not accept HD deliverables. I was looking at the HPX500 becuase it also has the ability to shoot DVCPRO50 (I am shooting 1/2" DVCPRO25 right now). But I was just curious how others in my field promote HD production to their clients.
 
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