Pre-Purchase Question re: PMW-EX1
- Thread starter basspig
- Start date
basspig
Veteran
Got 'em.
I ran it through RightMark 5.5 and zipped up the results and mailed them back to you.
Bottom line: Despite the unknown audio quality of the MacBook used as your test signal source, the overall results were the best I've measured on ANY camera. I'll bet the camera will do even better with a good laboratory-grade signal source. There is no question about the bass response. And this is, as you mentioned, the mic level, so it is a worst case measurement. The two transformers you used, plus the MacBook Pro may have limited the bandwidth and added a few bumps to the overall curve, so I'd bet the PMW-EX1 looks even smoother than what this test show, in reality.
In conclusion, with a good pair of studio condenser mics connected to this camera, the audio should be almost studio-quality.
Thank you for collaborating with me to obtain these test results. With your permission, I'd like to post them on my Camera Audio Tests page at www.basspig.com/CameraAudioTests.htm .
Feel free to post them. That's great news about the audio on the camera.
I expected the audio to be quite good.
I suspect that you are right about the balancing transformers - I didn't have any straight RCA-XLR adapters to work with, unfortunately.
After you get your camera, I'd like to see the results with more pristine equipment.
If it turns out that audio is 70% of video, and not 60%, this would be an even greater selling point for the EX1!
I expected the audio to be quite good.
I suspect that you are right about the balancing transformers - I didn't have any straight RCA-XLR adapters to work with, unfortunately.
After you get your camera, I'd like to see the results with more pristine equipment.
If it turns out that audio is 70% of video, and not 60%, this would be an even greater selling point for the EX1!
basspig
Veteran
As soon as I take delivery on them, I can assure you we'll be testing them and updating the tech data on the audio. (I'm already sold on the picture quality.)
Audio is pretty darned important. Try watching a movie with the sound turned off and you'll have time to reflect on that.
My camera tests have come from various users, not just myself. Although I did notice a clear bump in the V1U spectrum as well. It's tiny--about 1/10th of a dB, so it may be some anomaly with sampling, or it may be the 1KHz tone in the test that is being computed in the total results somehow. Just a guess.
On tests where the results are crazy looking (such as the DVX100), I put a disclaimer. I'll do the same about the preliminary EX1 test, stating that we used audio signal source from a laptop with matching transformers, so audio results may be smoother than what is shown in the preliminary graph.
Actually, I'm surprised that the camera measures as well as it did, considering the Rube Goldberg-ish interface you managed to cobble together to hook laptop to camera. I suspect all the ripples will be gone on a laboratory test. I also hope the high end will go past 15KHz. I think it will. My old Compaq laptop had a steep rolloff after 15KHz on playback too. I tested all my laptops because I use them to broadcast a radio show and they are music on hard drive sources that I take to radio studios, so each laptop has to meet a minimum spec for broadcast use. Looks like Sony tells the truth this time, with the XDCam EX.
Now I can't wait to sign the purchase order.
Audio is pretty darned important. Try watching a movie with the sound turned off and you'll have time to reflect on that.
My camera tests have come from various users, not just myself. Although I did notice a clear bump in the V1U spectrum as well. It's tiny--about 1/10th of a dB, so it may be some anomaly with sampling, or it may be the 1KHz tone in the test that is being computed in the total results somehow. Just a guess.
On tests where the results are crazy looking (such as the DVX100), I put a disclaimer. I'll do the same about the preliminary EX1 test, stating that we used audio signal source from a laptop with matching transformers, so audio results may be smoother than what is shown in the preliminary graph.
Actually, I'm surprised that the camera measures as well as it did, considering the Rube Goldberg-ish interface you managed to cobble together to hook laptop to camera. I suspect all the ripples will be gone on a laboratory test. I also hope the high end will go past 15KHz. I think it will. My old Compaq laptop had a steep rolloff after 15KHz on playback too. I tested all my laptops because I use them to broadcast a radio show and they are music on hard drive sources that I take to radio studios, so each laptop has to meet a minimum spec for broadcast use. Looks like Sony tells the truth this time, with the XDCam EX.
Now I can't wait to sign the purchase order.
basspig
Veteran
On looking at the charts again, I think I see what you're referring to... that's the dynamic range test and the THD + Noise test. These tests employ a 1KHz tone to check the dynamic range and distortion, so you are seeing the tone represented as that spike at 1KHz.
basspig
Veteran
The EX1 arrived about 1:30 this afternoon in perfect shape. Had to go to two doctor appointments, but returned around 4pm, having put the battery on charge while away.
First impressions: This is one SHARP camera. The LCD is as good as they say. The startup time is comparable to the V1U, not 15 seconds that some reviewers complained about. More like 4-5 seconds, during which time it displays a nice XDCAM EX logo.
You can basically point and shoot out of the box, but to access the camera’s higher level functions will require some time spent reading the manual.
Recording is instant. No waiting for heads to spin up.
Ingesting is fast and painless. Plug in the provided USB cable, XP sees the camera as a disc drive. Open the Clip Browser and set your Root drive to the letter of the PMW-EX1. All recorded clips appear as thumbnails in a couple of seconds. Select the desired clip, press Control-G (wrap to MXF file) and set your export folder to a hard drive. Wait a few seconds and the entire clip is wrapped and copied. The camera doesn’t even have to be in Media mode to transfer clips.
I’m testing Main Concept’s MPEG Pro HD 3 CODEC, and this makes it possible for Premiere CS3 to load the MXF files just as easily as any plain vanilla AVI file. Editing goes like normal for HDV and DV.
Back to the EX1: Indeed, awkward to hold with the hand grip, but not impossible. After an hour of operation, the back end does get luke warm to the touch. Many buttons are on the tiny side, but thankfully these are buttons you’ll likely set and forget most of the time. You MUST set manual zoom to use the zoom ring, or it offers much gear resistance. Once in manual, it’s smooth, though a bit looser than I’m used to. Iris in manual has a gear-like detented feel to it, though with firm grip it is possible to do a smooth change of aperture. The power switch is indeed difficult to find the center off detent. You have to be careful not to pass it and leave it in media mode by mistake. It’s a slider and I hope it isn’t a point of failure after a few hundred operations. The SxS card is not keyed—it isn’t hinted very well as to which orientation is correct, so I read the manual to be sure. Those not familiar with the EX1 should not try to insert a card, as it is too easy to do so upside down.
The feeling throughout is QUALITY. The lens assembly is quality through and through. Metal and rubber surfaces, not plastic. The camera body is bulbous and fat, and substantial. This is the sort of camera that loves to be tripod-mounted.
Low light? Yes, definitely a step improved over my VX2000. Don’t even mention the V1U. And with +9dB gain up, it can practically see in the dark, with no visible noise. +18dB noise is not bad. At +9, I’d say it’s about as quiet as my V1U at 0dB. Want to get silly? Frame accumulation mode. While not much use for motion, static scenes in darkness can reveal surprising amounts of detail.
Lattitude is great. Probably 2 full stops greater than my V1U’s. Some static scenes of equipment with backlit LCDs of different intensities used to present problems for the other cameras, but not of the EX1. Tonal detail from light to dark is there, with default settings. I realize they can be increased by playing with the gamma, but for now, these are out of box settings.
The lens is much more rectilinear than I expected. It’s really very linear, compared with the prosumer VX2000 and V1U that I have owned. Even full wide through a doorway, there is hardly any perceived curvature, even when lined up with the safe area boundary markers. The lens seems adequately wide, too. I’m not feeling claustrophobic with this lens.
I’m going to do a scientific test of the audio, but so far, the on-board mic sounds clean and there is no noticeable hiss or other noise at high gain settings. Will test with some studio condensers shortly. On board mic doesn’t have much L-R separation, so a good X-Y coincident stereo mic would be a nice addition to the empty external mic holder on the EX1.
Bottom line? Seems well-worth seven kilobucks. There’s a 90% probability that I will buy additonal units next month, once we’re completely confident in our workflow and archiving strategies.
First impressions: This is one SHARP camera. The LCD is as good as they say. The startup time is comparable to the V1U, not 15 seconds that some reviewers complained about. More like 4-5 seconds, during which time it displays a nice XDCAM EX logo.
You can basically point and shoot out of the box, but to access the camera’s higher level functions will require some time spent reading the manual.
Recording is instant. No waiting for heads to spin up.
Ingesting is fast and painless. Plug in the provided USB cable, XP sees the camera as a disc drive. Open the Clip Browser and set your Root drive to the letter of the PMW-EX1. All recorded clips appear as thumbnails in a couple of seconds. Select the desired clip, press Control-G (wrap to MXF file) and set your export folder to a hard drive. Wait a few seconds and the entire clip is wrapped and copied. The camera doesn’t even have to be in Media mode to transfer clips.
I’m testing Main Concept’s MPEG Pro HD 3 CODEC, and this makes it possible for Premiere CS3 to load the MXF files just as easily as any plain vanilla AVI file. Editing goes like normal for HDV and DV.
Back to the EX1: Indeed, awkward to hold with the hand grip, but not impossible. After an hour of operation, the back end does get luke warm to the touch. Many buttons are on the tiny side, but thankfully these are buttons you’ll likely set and forget most of the time. You MUST set manual zoom to use the zoom ring, or it offers much gear resistance. Once in manual, it’s smooth, though a bit looser than I’m used to. Iris in manual has a gear-like detented feel to it, though with firm grip it is possible to do a smooth change of aperture. The power switch is indeed difficult to find the center off detent. You have to be careful not to pass it and leave it in media mode by mistake. It’s a slider and I hope it isn’t a point of failure after a few hundred operations. The SxS card is not keyed—it isn’t hinted very well as to which orientation is correct, so I read the manual to be sure. Those not familiar with the EX1 should not try to insert a card, as it is too easy to do so upside down.
The feeling throughout is QUALITY. The lens assembly is quality through and through. Metal and rubber surfaces, not plastic. The camera body is bulbous and fat, and substantial. This is the sort of camera that loves to be tripod-mounted.
Low light? Yes, definitely a step improved over my VX2000. Don’t even mention the V1U. And with +9dB gain up, it can practically see in the dark, with no visible noise. +18dB noise is not bad. At +9, I’d say it’s about as quiet as my V1U at 0dB. Want to get silly? Frame accumulation mode. While not much use for motion, static scenes in darkness can reveal surprising amounts of detail.
Lattitude is great. Probably 2 full stops greater than my V1U’s. Some static scenes of equipment with backlit LCDs of different intensities used to present problems for the other cameras, but not of the EX1. Tonal detail from light to dark is there, with default settings. I realize they can be increased by playing with the gamma, but for now, these are out of box settings.
The lens is much more rectilinear than I expected. It’s really very linear, compared with the prosumer VX2000 and V1U that I have owned. Even full wide through a doorway, there is hardly any perceived curvature, even when lined up with the safe area boundary markers. The lens seems adequately wide, too. I’m not feeling claustrophobic with this lens.
I’m going to do a scientific test of the audio, but so far, the on-board mic sounds clean and there is no noticeable hiss or other noise at high gain settings. Will test with some studio condensers shortly. On board mic doesn’t have much L-R separation, so a good X-Y coincident stereo mic would be a nice addition to the empty external mic holder on the EX1.
Bottom line? Seems well-worth seven kilobucks. There’s a 90% probability that I will buy additonal units next month, once we’re completely confident in our workflow and archiving strategies.
basspig
Veteran
I just got done with the first round of audio tests on the PMW-EX1 and I am
delighted that the camera exceeded my expectations and even Sony's spec. The
response measures like a decent quality DAT recorder, which is only
reasonable to expect from a digital video camera. The listening test
confirms that the response is indeed wide and flat. With studio condenser
mics connected, the sound was crystalline and full-bodied. I'm going to do
some music tests, but here are the results from RightMark:
http://www.basspig.com/Sony%20PMW-EX1%20Line%20In%20Audio%20Test%202.htm
delighted that the camera exceeded my expectations and even Sony's spec. The
response measures like a decent quality DAT recorder, which is only
reasonable to expect from a digital video camera. The listening test
confirms that the response is indeed wide and flat. With studio condenser
mics connected, the sound was crystalline and full-bodied. I'm going to do
some music tests, but here are the results from RightMark:
http://www.basspig.com/Sony%20PMW-EX1%20Line%20In%20Audio%20Test%202.htm
basspig
Veteran
I'm not sure. Also the last couple of tests show erroneous data.
The first time I tested this, the red clip indicators lit up briefly on the first part of the test signal, and the graph was rocky looking like your graph. I determined that rockiness is due to clipping. The second test was with the gain backed down about a dB and the response curve was smooth. But it may still be too high and causing crosstalk.
I'll have to test again, but I can't right now because the XDCAM EX has malfunctioned and won't power on today. All I get is the logo and after a minute, E15030 on the display. After a few minutes on the phone with B&H Cust Service, it's going back for an exchange.
I discovered that once the camera "locked up", the manual focus, even on FULL MANUAL with the ring pulled into mechanical focus position--won't refocus the lens. The power switch won't turn the camera off either.
This suggests that the manual focus is still some sort of servo that depends on the CPU in the camera to operate, and the power switch is not a hardware power switch, it's probably just a software switch that tells the camera to go into hibernation. That explains why my battery was drained about 10% after sitting in the off position for 6 hours. The latter is not a good thing. Off should mean OFF.
Somehow, it seemed too good to be true, a camera this good for only $7K. I guess the caveate is that it's not built to last, not reliable.
Oh well. I'm waiting for the UPS prepaid return shipping label to come.
The first time I tested this, the red clip indicators lit up briefly on the first part of the test signal, and the graph was rocky looking like your graph. I determined that rockiness is due to clipping. The second test was with the gain backed down about a dB and the response curve was smooth. But it may still be too high and causing crosstalk.
I'll have to test again, but I can't right now because the XDCAM EX has malfunctioned and won't power on today. All I get is the logo and after a minute, E15030 on the display. After a few minutes on the phone with B&H Cust Service, it's going back for an exchange.
I discovered that once the camera "locked up", the manual focus, even on FULL MANUAL with the ring pulled into mechanical focus position--won't refocus the lens. The power switch won't turn the camera off either.
This suggests that the manual focus is still some sort of servo that depends on the CPU in the camera to operate, and the power switch is not a hardware power switch, it's probably just a software switch that tells the camera to go into hibernation. That explains why my battery was drained about 10% after sitting in the off position for 6 hours. The latter is not a good thing. Off should mean OFF.
Somehow, it seemed too good to be true, a camera this good for only $7K. I guess the caveate is that it's not built to last, not reliable.
Oh well. I'm waiting for the UPS prepaid return shipping label to come.
Your case is highly unusual, I think. I have not heard of any such issue and I am on these and other boards a lot.
So I think the camera is pretty reliable, but yours unfortunately was defective.
It's pretty well established that the manual lens is servo driven. The main reason I think is backfocus, which is set through an internal LUT to keep the markings accurate and the focus sharp throughout the zoom. In a way that's a good thing because it allows field calibration to compensate for slight mechanical issues that might appear over time.
The power switch does definitely suck, in all respects.
Sorry about your camera. I think you'll really like it when you get a working one.
Do you remember the SN of the bad one?
So I think the camera is pretty reliable, but yours unfortunately was defective.
It's pretty well established that the manual lens is servo driven. The main reason I think is backfocus, which is set through an internal LUT to keep the markings accurate and the focus sharp throughout the zoom. In a way that's a good thing because it allows field calibration to compensate for slight mechanical issues that might appear over time.
The power switch does definitely suck, in all respects.
Sorry about your camera. I think you'll really like it when you get a working one.
Do you remember the SN of the bad one?
basspig
Veteran
My s/n is 102161. The rep from B&H said it was the first time he's seen a PMW-EX1 fail in the field. Heck, I wasn't even done familiarizing myself with the menus. The camera had all of 5 hours on it when it just locked up and refused to focus, auto iris or do any menu functions.
I guess it's the law of averages--I was extremely lucky with my TRV900, VX2000's and V1U's as far as reliability and no failures. To expect that trend to continue into yet another Sony camera was probably unrealistic.
Failures aside, I am pretty disappointed that the OFF position on the switch is not really off. Having to deal with taking batteries off the cameras and not lose them or misplace them in the frenetic pace of shooting weddings is just another thing I have to concern myself with. Why, after all these years of Sony cameras that turn off, do they make one where "off" is not REALLY off? I think they're going to have to re engineer that switch design. I can see the unsuspecting videographer, charged up his batteries the day or two before the shoot, and shows up at the job site, turns on the cameras and finds all the batteries have 30 minutes or less left.
Well, hopefully the next XDCam EX B&H ships will be 100% trouble-free.
I guess it's the law of averages--I was extremely lucky with my TRV900, VX2000's and V1U's as far as reliability and no failures. To expect that trend to continue into yet another Sony camera was probably unrealistic.
Failures aside, I am pretty disappointed that the OFF position on the switch is not really off. Having to deal with taking batteries off the cameras and not lose them or misplace them in the frenetic pace of shooting weddings is just another thing I have to concern myself with. Why, after all these years of Sony cameras that turn off, do they make one where "off" is not REALLY off? I think they're going to have to re engineer that switch design. I can see the unsuspecting videographer, charged up his batteries the day or two before the shoot, and shows up at the job site, turns on the cameras and finds all the batteries have 30 minutes or less left.
Well, hopefully the next XDCam EX B&H ships will be 100% trouble-free.
iconoclast6
Member
you wrote "I am pretty disappointed that the OFF position on the switch is not really off"
This explains why my batteries have experienced being drained down from simply being left in the camera, but not from actual use.
Any idea if this something that can be addressed in a firmware update?
My s/n is 100752. I purchased from AbelCine in NYC.
This explains why my batteries have experienced being drained down from simply being left in the camera, but not from actual use.
Any idea if this something that can be addressed in a firmware update?
My s/n is 100752. I purchased from AbelCine in NYC.
Stevet
Veteran
That's a good question, I'm not sure why the battery is being loaded in it's off position, very strange.
My JVCHD100 also drained batteries when they were left in the camera, but at a much lower rate.
The EX1 power switch must not be a make-break contact switch for the circuit. It's probably toggling a
a power control circuit, which apparently needs some current to operate in a "stand-by" mode"
My JVCHD100 also drained batteries when they were left in the camera, but at a much lower rate.
The EX1 power switch must not be a make-break contact switch for the circuit. It's probably toggling a
a power control circuit, which apparently needs some current to operate in a "stand-by" mode"
Last edited:
basspig
Veteran
Stevet has probably hit the nail on the head--it's a software switch, just like the power switch on modern ATX computer cases that control a low voltage logic state, rather than make/break the 110V ac contacts. In the camera, it's probably similar.
I also not that the battery has FIVE contacts instead of two, as with earlier Sonys. Perhaps Sony decided a software switch would be better.
Can firmware updates improve the "off" power consumption? Good question.
But I frankly don't like the idea of removing the batteries and then installing them on-location--just another small item that can get lost/misplaced and then you're in hot water when you arrive at a wedding and can't find your battery. And in these frenetic situations, things can and will get lost. If it wasn't for this camera's F900-quality images and sound, I'd have opted for a refund instead of an exchange.
BTW, UPS STILL hasn't sent the shipping label, so the camera is still sitting here in the box, waiting. It will be mid next week at the earliest before I have a replacement. Aarrggh!
I also not that the battery has FIVE contacts instead of two, as with earlier Sonys. Perhaps Sony decided a software switch would be better.
Can firmware updates improve the "off" power consumption? Good question.
But I frankly don't like the idea of removing the batteries and then installing them on-location--just another small item that can get lost/misplaced and then you're in hot water when you arrive at a wedding and can't find your battery. And in these frenetic situations, things can and will get lost. If it wasn't for this camera's F900-quality images and sound, I'd have opted for a refund instead of an exchange.
BTW, UPS STILL hasn't sent the shipping label, so the camera is still sitting here in the box, waiting. It will be mid next week at the earliest before I have a replacement. Aarrggh!