Should I upgrade from the Canon AH-A1 to the Sony EX1?

I'm glad someone was feeling me.Unless my stuff is going to look like the images coming out of the red camera, will not let these shark companies embesel $1000s of dollars moreout of me for something that is that simialar in image quality.$3500 = another canon a1 that you can rent out if you wanted.
 
Canon A1 is king of 1/3" CCD's right now and EX1 is king of 1/2" CMOS right now. I'd rather have 2 A1's than one EX.

The EX is nice, but ahead of its time regarding archive and workflow, and just a bit better overall than the A1 in image quality. If you do event work, count on a ton of flashes to deal with from photogs and paparazzi. Rolling shutter issues could be a problem with the CMOS chips.

As usual, I'm waiting for more reports from the front to come in.
 
it has been mentioned many times before. But the EX1's picture is much more superior than the a1. It should be, it has a better lens, larger sensors and higher bit rate. the a1 is still an amazing camera though
 
well now phillip, i wouldn't necesarily call it far more superior from what i've seen posted from both cams.although you do make that camera sing just as disjecta makes the canon a1 sing.and as a matter of fact the first letus ex footage with your hdv sony that you posted wowed the comunity,but at the same time any of these little hd cams in the right hands could probably match image for image unless your doing filmouts ,and that to me is what would seperate the ex1 from the others.and to be truthful,even when the average joe sits down at their hdtv i seriouly doubt they'll be counting the pixels like us tech freaks.the last short i shot i thought the canon was so sharp and detailed i dialed back detail -7 to give it a more organic look.case and point,the reason why we use 35mm adapters is to soften the edges not enhance them.at the end of the day if we both plug up our cameras and the comon joe stops by and says, wow those images look amazing we would have both made out in a sense ,but i would have a slight advantage in the pocket book.lets face it,we post footage to wow our peers,do i need to spend an extra $3500 to get the same response.
 
Remember, in a lot of these cameras, a lot of perceived sharpness is in detail control. If you can shut off, or turn it down, it will give you a better idea of how much "real" information is available. The EX1 does get a tad softer with detail off, but it sure holds a lot of detail.

Some cameras really get excessively soft with detail off.
The EX1 using 1080P holds a lot of detail that can relate to real smooth detailed images.

If I were to buy a "B" camera to use with the EX1, I'd buy the XH A1. It's a great camera.
 
Why XDCAM EX is better and worth more than Canon XH-A1.

I save money in the long run by not having to buy DV tapes.

I save time by not having to wait IN REAL TIME to download my footage via tape.

I have over and undercranking.

I have uncompressed Audio.

I am not destroying my camera rec head by using it to download "non native" 24p footage. or I dont have to spend extra 1k for hv-20 just to use as a deck.

I have high rez lcd to use with my 35mm adapter.

I have SDI out for in studio 4:2:2 work.

I have true manual lens control.

and yes, this came from a user that USED to own the Canon XH-A1 and XL-H1.
 
What about the images.

Are you finding them as nice as your Canons?

Others have said the EX1's strength lies in its 1080p.

Do you find that to be the case?
 
reem12 said:
well now phillip, i wouldn't necesarily call it far more superior from what i've seen posted from both cams.although you do make that camera sing just as disjecta makes the canon a1 sing.and as a matter of fact the first letus ex footage with your hdv sony that you posted wowed the comunity,but at the same time any of these little hd cams in the right hands could probably match image for image unless your doing filmouts ,and that to me is what would seperate the ex1 from the others.and to be truthful,even when the average joe sits down at their hdtv i seriouly doubt they'll be counting the pixels like us tech freaks.the last short i shot i thought the canon was so sharp and detailed i dialed back detail -7 to give it a more organic look.case and point,the reason why we use 35mm adapters is to soften the edges not enhance them.at the end of the day if we both plug up our cameras and the comon joe stops by and says, wow those images look amazing we would have both made out in a sense ,but i would have a slight advantage in the pocket book.lets face it,we post footage to wow our peers,do i need to spend an extra $3500 to get the same response.
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That's the whole point (I do wish you would press return on your keyboard a little more to make seperate paragraphs so it is easier to read!)...I am not a tech freak. i don't care about numbers or pixels.

The features mentioned above are all true...the most important thing is without ANY adaptor on it the EX1 picture is quite astounding, as good if not better at times than my F350. There is no way you can tell me the picture of the A1 is as good without an adaptor as my F350. It is in a different league, that doesn't make it a poor camera...it's still just about the best 1/3" HDV camera out there (although I adore the organic look from my JVC HD201e without any adaptor...I just wish it was more than 720p)
 
May I just simply answer the original posters question.

If you feel you creatively have exhausted all your options on the A1 and some component is holding you back OR

You feel you could grow further with the EX and the workflow is more to your needs....

THEN YES!!!!!!!!

If your shooting on the A1, havent really used it a great deal, still getting a feel then NO!!!!!!
 
philip bloom said:
it has been mentioned many times before. But the EX1's picture is much more superior than the a1. It should be, it has a better lens, larger sensors and higher bit rate. the a1 is still an amazing camera though
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I owned the A1 and have the HVX now. I've seen footage from the EX1 and, really, I can't see a big difference in image quality. And the comparisons I've seen with the EX1 and HVX footage don't sway me either. I'm not taking anything away from the EX1. It has a high quality image. Really nice. But it's not leaps and bounds above the Canon or, for that matter, the HVX.
 
Morpheus, there is a real problem with people making comments about cameras they haven't actually used. Trust me, get your hands on an EX1. Shoot some pictures then look back at them on an HD monitor, then tell me that you can't see a big difference in image quality.

I would never comment on how one camera compares to another if I haven't actually used them both!
 
philip bloom said:
Morpheus, there is a real problem with people making comments about cameras they haven't actually used. Trust me, get your hands on an EX1. Shoot some pictures then look back at them on an HD monitor, then tell me that you can't see a big difference in image quality.

I would never comment on how one camera compares to another if I haven't actually used them both!
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With all due respect Philip, while I don't own a EX1 myself, I have seen footage on a HD monitor, just as I have seen XHA1 and HVX footage. I agree with you that the EX1 has a better, sharper, crisper image. But it is not leaps and bounds above a Canon or HVX. It's just not. I examined the footage from the EX1 because my vendor called me to pick mine up. I had a deposit and was next on the list. If the image quality was leaps and bounds better, I would have picked mine up. But, again, I kept the HVX because it does everything. It doesn't do everything better, but it does everything. The EX1 and Canon's do 1 thing better. They produce a high quality, higher resolution image.
Resolution does not necessarily make a better image. And this is all subjective and only my personal opinion. I could have easily had the EX1 and not the HVX but, resolution aside, my HVX produces a fantastic image plus all the other things that made the HVX the one to compare all other sub 10000 cameras to.
 
Morpheus 23,

Could you possibly post some of the HVX images you refer to? I'd like to see how you arrived at your conclusion. Thanks.

Vince
 
Morpheus_23 said:
I owned the A1 and have the HVX now. I've seen footage from the EX1 and, really, I can't see a big difference in image quality.
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There are other important factors that make the upgrade worth considering.

As an A1 owner I am particularly envious of the EX for:

Low light sensitivity.
Better compression.
HiRez (usable) LCD
Tapeless workflow (on more affordable media that actually fits into my current laptop).

I used to really regret not having variable frame rates, but Twixtor has soothed my pain. It is really phenomenal.

In my case I spent money on a Firestore, Bebob box to hold it, and a Marshall monitor in an attempt to have (or surpass) some of those features on my A1. That is close to 3 grand in upgrades.

So, if someone is thinking of upgrading, there are many factors beyond image alone.

While I love Panasonic colors, I tend to color all of my material myself, so if I had to choose I would take resolution over color.

For me, those issues would lead me to look past the HVX and to the EX if it comes time to upgrade (who knows what Canon will counter with by that time. It may be quite compelling on its own).
 
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ok phillip,my opologies if i've offended,but there will always be disagreements on whats better and whats not.i'm not arguing the fact nor have ever said the a1 is better then the ex1 but only responding to a question of another concerned user by tring to enlighten on what i've personaly used and the footage that i've personaly seen from other users with both cameras.

now in response to those commenting on cameras they've never used,i would agree with you,but if someone does a side by side comparison and posts it on dvx user for me to see,if i don't own the sony i can only make my judgement call based upon whats i see on my moniter,and from what i've seen on my moniter in the image department the ex1 has not shown to be signifantly much better then the a1 and this has also been stated by someone who has used both cams.so should one say that your eyes or expert knowledge is that much better then anothers.its all subjective.

bottom line, if someone dosen't need all the bells and whistles like varible frame rates, uncompressed audio, etc. then the canon a1 or hvx is a cam for you.personaly i came to the conclusion that want varible frame rates and a couple of other bells like the 4:2:2 and an optional p2 workflow so i just purchased a used hvx in the market place at a very reasonable price and still have come out cheaper with 2 cams now then i would with the sony ex1.it all boils down to your needs and wants.
 
Michael Friedman said:
While I love Panasonic colors, I tend to color all of my material myself, so if I had to choose I would take resolution over color.
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Just want to clarify, and this has nothing to do with my opinion which could be either way, but the boast is less to do with the actual color the camera is capable of and more to do with the color informaton thats available for grading in a 4:2:2 image. SO recording to soild state HVX 4:2:2 vs EX 4:2:0.
 
All of this will be moot in a year.... LOL.
I'm confident that more manufactures will move to the higher color space 4:2:2.

If you want to see decent 4:2:2, there will be plenty of 10 bit 4:2:2 coming from the EX1 SDI over the next year.
 
Noel Evans said:
May I just simply answer the original posters question.

If you feel you creatively have exhausted all your options on the A1 and some component is holding you back OR

You feel you could grow further with the EX and the workflow is more to your needs....

THEN YES!!!!!!!!

If your shooting on the A1, havent really used it a great deal, still getting a feel then NO!!!!!!
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Brilliant. Perfect post.
 
How 4:2:2 is the 1080p24 DVCProHD codec?

1280x1080, with 1.5x horizontal stretch on playout.

HDCam recorded to the camera tape is referred to as 3:1:1. HDCam camera records 1440x1080, so how does the 1080p24 DVCProHD encoding method compare, and at a lesser 1280x1080? X:X:X ?
 
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