ESTEBEVERDE
Veteran
True... some of the most benevolent and the absolutely most evil people to ever exist on this planet are Christians.
That would be a great horror movie to watch good Christians and evil Christians fight it out.
Christian horror movie??
- Thread starter David W. Richardson
- Start date
True... some of the most benevolent and the absolutely most evil people to ever exist on this planet are Christians.
That would be a great horror movie to watch good Christians and evil Christians fight it out.
KyleProhaska
Veteran
Thats quite impossible actually. You'd be getting into doctrinal issues and such but a Christian who is "evil" isn't a Christian. They may be the typical US "Christian" though who goes to church twice a year and has 5 bibles in their house they don't read...lol.
- Kyle
ESTEBEVERDE
Veteran
Not impossible at all but most certainly would be tumultuous.
The converse is quite true as well.
There are fantastic Christians who don't go to church at all and absolute monsters who go three or more times a week and can readily quote to the letter whatever "biblical" text suits their needs at the moment to justify their horrific actions and attitudes.
:engel017: vs :evil:
The funny thing is that each and every one of them thinks they are :engel017: and the other is the :evil: !
Quite funny actually! :beer:
Jared Meyer
Veteran
These are the kind of posts that will get this thread closed.
Let's not get into an argument about what constitutes a good/bad christian, please.
Let's not get into an argument about what constitutes a good/bad christian, please.
This rather illustrates though the dilemma as I outlined: who gets to define what is a Christian movie. The answer is: everybody and nobody. Just as one poster felt that someone who does terrible things cannot be a "true" Christian, while the other poster felt there was no problem. These are honest disagreements which would be carried over to any movie made. Bottom line is: no matter who makes the movie, as long as he/she claims it's a "Christian" (or "Muslim" or "Buddhist" or whatever) movie - that instantly sets up disagreements with vast numbers of people. "Secular" films which aim only to do the job ("scare" or "horrify"), don't face that dilemma.
Jared Meyer
Veteran
Who would want to claim that a movie is intended for a specific religious (or secular) group? Not me. Aside from extreme examples of movies obviously intended as proselytizing tools, I think those are non-existent and non-helpful labels. Napoleon Dynamite is made by Mormons but is not a Mormon movie. And it would be silly to say it is. It would also be silly to say that Passion of the Christ is a "Catholic" movie. As if those labels determine the intended audience.
I don't think that's what the OP is asking either. The ideas is not how to make something specifically for Christians. It's how to make something for everyone while remaining true to your own value system. Which in the OP's case is a Christian one. I interpreted the question as - is it possible to make a "godly" horror film. Not - is it possible to make a horror film that all christians will find acceptable and want to go see.
All anyone can do is produce stories and art that espouses what they themselves perceive to be true and good. There's not really any question that there are different types of Christians with different beliefs and different levels of conservatism. IMO, that's not really helpful to the discussion. And it's going to get the thread closed if anything.
I don't think that's what the OP is asking either. The ideas is not how to make something specifically for Christians. It's how to make something for everyone while remaining true to your own value system. Which in the OP's case is a Christian one. I interpreted the question as - is it possible to make a "godly" horror film. Not - is it possible to make a horror film that all christians will find acceptable and want to go see.
All anyone can do is produce stories and art that espouses what they themselves perceive to be true and good. There's not really any question that there are different types of Christians with different beliefs and different levels of conservatism. IMO, that's not really helpful to the discussion. And it's going to get the thread closed if anything.
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CallaghanFilms
Veteran
Here's what I don't get...
If someone wants to make a horror film, it's fair to assume that they dig horror films on some level already. So I would say to that cat, "Make a movie you would want to see."
Most great filmmakers do have various levels of spirituality in their personal lives. Just as an example, Hitchcock was an uber-devout Catholic...so does that make Psycho and The Birds "Christian Horror Films" because they were made by a pious Christian? Methinks not.
Make the film you want to make; unless you want to target a selective audience (like Kirk Cameron does)...in which case make the film they want you to make. It's really is that simple.
Cheers :beer:
.
If someone wants to make a horror film, it's fair to assume that they dig horror films on some level already. So I would say to that cat, "Make a movie you would want to see."
Most great filmmakers do have various levels of spirituality in their personal lives. Just as an example, Hitchcock was an uber-devout Catholic...so does that make Psycho and The Birds "Christian Horror Films" because they were made by a pious Christian? Methinks not.
Make the film you want to make; unless you want to target a selective audience (like Kirk Cameron does)...in which case make the film they want you to make. It's really is that simple.
Cheers :beer:
.
ESTEBEVERDE
Veteran
Hello Jared~
I didn't notice any arguments nor did I get the vibe one was going to start.
It's difficult to have a serious conversation about film without bringing our individual perspectives. If we don't, it's just bland drivel.
As long as we remain civil I think we are fine. And, I don't think we were necessarily headed into a deep theological or dogmatic debate.
But, your sentiment is much appreciated and I do respect your opinion and sound advice.
All the Best.
~Estebe
ESTEBEVERDE
Veteran
Excellent Points!
But, we should not fear to put ourselves and ideas out there lest we be relegated to the scrap heap of humanity.
ESTEBEVERDE
Veteran
Blaine
Mr. Hollywood
Actually, Politics and Religion are both topics that are not allowed on this site. That said, this thread has done a great job talking about movie making as it relates to a specific audience. The post Jared Meyer was concerned about was moving the discussion from the POV of filmmaking to one of Religion. This thread is skirting a difficult subject in a reasonable and adult manor which is strange in and of itself. I think the thread was started in an effort to solve a "filmmaking dilemma" and it has been moving toward that point. Obviously, there are going to be a lot of opinions on the subject and I'm quite surprised to see it stay this civil for so long. Try to keep it that way. Let's talk about the filmmaking and not the theological precepts.
ESTEBEVERDE
Veteran
I certainly understand and respect your points Mr. Blaine. And, while I do enjoy a good dust up now and again and am never one to shy away from the "fun" of mud slinging I will heed your advice.
It is with some measurable degree of sadness though as it is the story that is the conditio sine qua non of all great film.
I think you're missing the point. It's not a question of making a movie intended for a specific religious group. It's a question of making a movie that HAS A SPECIFIC RELIGIOUS PERSPECTIVE. Here I'll quote the OP:
"So I've wondered -- is it possible to make a Christian horror movie??"
My point here is that the problem is going to be in getting a broad agreement (even, or perhaps especially among) Christians as to what constitutes a Christian (emphasis by the OP) horror film. My point was not, nor was it the point by the OP that the movie itself is aimed at Christians (or any specific group). In short: WHAT is a Christian movie, not is the movie AIMED at Christians. And I'm pointing out: it'll be hard/impossible to define a Christian movie.
This of course is complete nonsense. Nobody that I'm aware of, has claimed in this thread that the religious background of the filmmaker determines whether the movie itself is Christian/Catholic/Mormon etc. So it's a red herring - what this is doing in this discussion I have no idea. Nobody else introduced this absurdity.
I think we all understand the difference between the filmmaker's incidental background, which is irrelevant to the movie, and the case when the filmmaker HAS EXPLICITLY SET OUT to make a Christian/Mormon/Whatever movie. Napoleon Dynamite was made by a Mormon but it has not purported to be a Mormon movie - that's a rather obvious difference.
And indeed the OP WAS very much indeed asking about this specifically. I quote again, from his first post, the key question and request he made:
"So I've wondered -- is it possible to make a Christian horror movie??"
Those are the OP's words, nobody else's - and they are crystal clear.
Indeed, this is well understood - you are arguing points nobody is making. Nobody asked to make movies specifically for Christians. What people said, is that in making a Christian movie, you won't get agreement even among Christians that this is in fact a Christian movie. In other words, the OP is asking for a Christian movie, and the response is "there's no agreement on what is a Christian movie even among Christians. That was the point argued - not that the movie is somehow only aimed at Christians.
What??? This is a mess. First, "own value system" of the filmmaker is an unknown, so there would be no sense in the OP asking us whether it's possible to make a film that reflects his "own value system" - let's try it on for size:
"So I've wondered -- is it possible to make a horror movie that remains true to my own value system??"
I think, we'd say: only you can know that, since we don't know your value system.
Second, "which in the OP's case is a Christian one" - this is a compound mess. There are two distinct issues here - the background of the filmmaker (OP) may be indeed Christian as he/she identifies it... but as we agree, that's irrelevant (see Hitchcock example by the other poster). The other issue is that he wants to make a Christian movie. And my point is that there is no agreement on what is a Christian movie (even among Christians). So there.
"I interpreted the question as - is it possible to make a "godly" horror film." BY WHOSE DEFINITION OF "GODLY"???
"Not - is it possible to make a horror film that all christians will find acceptable and want to go see." Only you are bringing in this straw man.
Larry Rutledge
Fest Master
First, I have to agree with the earlier post. We are walking a very thin line as the topic of religion is not allowed here. So let's please be conscious of our discussion and keep it focused on the original question and not personal mud slinging (not saying anyone is, just a reminder before we have a problem).
All that saidI think there are really two kinds of "Christian movie". One is a movie (of any kind) made specifically for a "Christian" audience. The other (which I believe is the intent of the OP) is a film that is grounded in, or expressive if, a Christian world view.
How you define a "Christian world-view" depends on the originators pount of view. For me,a protestant believer, a Christian world-view is one that is defined by Judeo-Christian beliefs as defined by the canonized scripture. For a Catholic Christian, that world view might include other books of history and other materials. For a Mormon that world-view would be based on the Book of Mormon.
All that said, I don't think you have to define what a Christian movie is, or is not. Rather you have to define what world-view you want to express in your movie.
And that can be separate from your personal belief system. For example, if as a protestant Bible believing Christian I wanted to tell an honest story about Joseph Smith, I simply have to base the story in the Mormon world-view.
I think the real question is, how do you tell a story based on any world-view and get the audience to accept it, especially if it might differ from their persobal world-view.
Just my $0.01 9/10
Peace,
Larry
All that saidI think there are really two kinds of "Christian movie". One is a movie (of any kind) made specifically for a "Christian" audience. The other (which I believe is the intent of the OP) is a film that is grounded in, or expressive if, a Christian world view.
How you define a "Christian world-view" depends on the originators pount of view. For me,a protestant believer, a Christian world-view is one that is defined by Judeo-Christian beliefs as defined by the canonized scripture. For a Catholic Christian, that world view might include other books of history and other materials. For a Mormon that world-view would be based on the Book of Mormon.
All that said, I don't think you have to define what a Christian movie is, or is not. Rather you have to define what world-view you want to express in your movie.
And that can be separate from your personal belief system. For example, if as a protestant Bible believing Christian I wanted to tell an honest story about Joseph Smith, I simply have to base the story in the Mormon world-view.
I think the real question is, how do you tell a story based on any world-view and get the audience to accept it, especially if it might differ from their persobal world-view.
Just my $0.01 9/10
Peace,
Larry
HorseFilms
Look ma no hands
You really can't. What you have to do is present that view as a "possibility" and not as "fact." That view can end up being true in the universe you create, but you can't feed it to them as fact from the start or you'll lose people. If you beat them over the head with it, they'll stop watching because it's no longer entertainment.
DeSica
Well-known member
Does Jesus Camp count?
It sure scared the freakin' crap outta me...especially some of the haircuts.
Jason Ramsey
Admin
DeSica... Chill on some of your comments in here. From what I have seen glancing through this thread, you have made nothing but jokes and added not much (that I saw) of value to the original topic at hand. Trolling to start something in otherwords.
And, for everyone... just be amazed that this thread has even stayed open this long. Keep it civil and on topic and be mindful of the guidelines.
Thanks much. But, last warning.
Later,
Jason
And, for everyone... just be amazed that this thread has even stayed open this long. Keep it civil and on topic and be mindful of the guidelines.
Thanks much. But, last warning.
Later,
Jason
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DarkMatter
Veteran
Wow is that offensive! If they WERE evil they ARE definitely NOT Christians, seems to me once you cross THAT line there is no turning back.
Just basic widely accepted Christian beliefs.
In answer to the OP yes it can be done, so figure a way that involves aspects that are widely accepted in Christian religion ex, Good/Evil ect... and run with it, just be sure you are doing it with the right purpose and the right reasons, because as a film maker the film will be a direct reflection of yourself.
BTW there are other ways to show evil in a character than with frequent vulgar language and yes I'm sure it would be a turn off for many Christians... Of course a "Christian" horror film may be a turn off also. A few come to mind.
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