OnLocation (DV Rack) 1080 24p Recording

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ozzymandius

Active member
I have an HVX-200 with OnLocation running on a brand new Fujitsu Lifebook laptop

*** Windows Vista , dual core AMD Turion X2 @ 2Ghz, 2GB ram, 120GB 5400rpm HDD ***

I bought this laptop based on the specs of others who have been successful in recording with OnLocation.

I am able to see and record 720 24p as MOV files.

However, when I switch to 1080 24pa or 1080 24p, I get a black screen!

I have tried everything I can think of, switching to AVI recording mode, shutting down OnLocation and restarting, rebooting the computer, etc., etc, yet still no image.

At one point in testing I did see brief msg 'HDD too slow' but mostly just a black screen. And besides, the HD should be fast enough a 5400rpm

  1. How does one see and record 1080 24p or pa from the HVX in OnLocation?!
  2. Is this likely a Windows Vista problem? Would installing Windows XP free up memory and/or hard disk speed?
  3. If it really is an HD speed issue, would attaching an external 7200 rpm HD via firewire or eSata solve the problem? Or am I bottlenecked by the fact that the OS and OnLocation reside on the main (5400rpm) HD?
Any help or input greatly appreciated. I left a similar msg on Adobe's forum but no answer there yet.

Thanks!
 
It's not an HD speed issue; I record 1080/24pA on a 4200RPM SATA drive and it works. It's going to be Vista or some other conflict; your question is probably best directed to Adobe's tech support staff.
 
Maybe it would be worth trying to record as AVI and see what happens.

Edit .... woops ... ignore that, I see you already tried that :)
 
Thanks. That's what I thought. I'll wait to see if Adobe has anything to say. If not, it's bye bye Vista and back to Win XP.
 
Just for anyone having a similar problem - wiping out Windows Vista and replacing with XP solved the problem. Works fine now.

But a word of warning to anyone who buys a Vista laptop and attempts to wipe the HD and install XP - it's hell!! Took me almost two frickin' days to get the laptop working properly with the right drivers. All the drivers that came with the laptop CDs were Vista drivers. A few things still don't work correctly, but as I am using the laptop for HVX recording only, I am only concered with OnLocation and that works fine.
 
Now that I have it working, here is a follow-up question for anyone that has experience in this:

I am recording to a Win XP laptop but for editing I will be transferring all clips to FCP on a Mac. What is the best workflow for this? Should I record to OnLocation as quicktime movies and then just transfer that to my Mac and drop it into the FCP timeline? Or should I install Raylight on my Mac and first "unwrap" the quicktime clips into MXF format and edit in MXF? Is there any advantage to doing that?

Or should I record to OnLocation in some other format other than QT? Is there some way to make OnLocation record directly into MXF format so I can transfer those unaltered files to my Mac FCP with Raylight?

Any input greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
You should record as Quicktime.

What Raylight is good for is not having to convert MXF files to Quicktimes on import in order to use them on the FCP timeline. But if the files are already Quicktime, the advantage is gone.
 
On the downside, DVCProHD QuickTime files are fairly useless on a PC, since Apple doesn't support the codec under Windows. That means that you can't review what you recorded until you get it to a Mac.

Edius will open and edit DVCProHD QuickTime files because it provides its own DVCProHD codec, or you can use Raylight Decoder to add DVCProHD support to Windows-based QuickTime.
 
David - thanks for the info.

A follow-up Q: from reading these forums, it seems that editing in MXF in FCP is safer than editing in QT due to unexpected glitches in FCP-QT, especially after a software update. I know Barry Green has recommended several times on these forums to install Raylight and edit with MXFs. But as you stated, it may be a moot point if OnLocation is recording in QT to begin with.

However, let's say I transfer my QT files from my Win XP OnLocation to my Mac FCP and run into some of those aforementioned glitches. If I also have Raylight on my Mac, can I unwrap the QT movies, essentially revert them to the original MXFs? Or does the QT wrapper destroy the integrity of the original MXFs, making this reversion impossible?

Again, I would only want to revert to MXF if I encountered some kind of problem with the QT clips (corrupted frames, unable to play, etc.)
 
THoff - I had read that before, but yesterday I tested it and it seemed to both record and play fine!

I put the HVX into 1080 24PA recording mode, set OnLocation to record MOV files and not only was able to record but was able to play the clips back in OnLocation.

So is OnLocation playing back the actual QT clip? Or is it playing some kind of other format clip, even though it was recorded as MOV? I'm a bit confused about it.
 
ozzymandius said:
David - thanks for the info.

A follow-up Q: from reading these forums, it seems that editing in MXF in FCP is safer than editing in QT due to unexpected glitches in FCP-QT,
Click to expand...

FCP can't edit the straight MXF files. It has to re-wrap them into QT, which is what the import process does. It makes QT (DVCPROHD) copies of the MFX files.

The files recorded by OnLocation are already what you'd have if you imported MXFs into FCP.



I know Barry Green has recommended several times on these forums to install Raylight and edit with MXFs.
Click to expand...
Sure he has -- why go through the process of import/rewrap to QT if you don't have to? Raylight keeps you from having to do that.


However, let's say I transfer my QT files from my Win XP OnLocation to my Mac FCP and run into some of those aforementioned glitches.
Click to expand...
If you are referring to the "glitches" present at times when importing footage from a P2 card, it's not because of QT itself; it's because the Mac OS writes files to the P2 card when it accesses them, and it can cause glitches with the footage. (This can be solved by write-protecting the card.) You don't have to worry about that with the OnLocation QTs.



If I also have Raylight on my Mac, can I unwrap the QT movies, essentially revert them to the original MXFs?
Click to expand...
If you recorded them with OnLocation, they never were in MXF format.


Or does the QT wrapper destroy the integrity of the original MXFs, making this reversion impossible?
Click to expand...
P2 Maker will allow you to create MXFs from QTs. But if there's a problem with the QTs, then wrapping them into MXFs won't solve it.

And yes, converting MXFs to QT discards some of the data. It doesn't "destroy the integrity" of the video and audio data, but you discard the metadata.

Wrapping back into MXF with P2 Maker won't restore that data lost.

But with OnLocation, that metadata was never there. If you want the metadata, you have to shoot to the cards. (Not having it doesn't make the video any less editable; you just don't have some information which could be useful in other, media-managment ways. But it's a moot point with FCP, anyway, because it doesn't do anything with that data.)


Again, I would only want to revert to MXF if I encountered some kind of problem with the QT clips (corrupted frames, unable to play, etc.)
Click to expand...

Like I said, converting to MXF won't solve that problem.
 
Ozzymandius,

Beware of another type of glitch with the PC running OnLocation: your PC is drinking from a firehose and cannot catch up if the buffer overruns.
Just as a precaution, make sure to turn off all the apps that can startup automatically without warning during a recording session. That may even include the virus protection and your wireless and of course the screen saver/power schemes. Review all the apps that run at PC startup time as well. Defrag before the shoot.

Also, turn off all the OnLocation "Components" you don't need when actually recording. It wants to control your video memory. And don't fiddle with the firewire cable while recording.

------

As for your workflow, I also use OnLocation to record occasionally, but only for test shots when setting up a location. I would not rely on it for real production shooting.

My production workflow also includes using the same PC laptop for P2 dumping...which will somewhat interupt the OnLocation monitoring.

However, I'm now changing that workflow in order to keep OnLocation doing what it does best (monitoring) constantly through the shoot. I now dump the P2 cards directly into a Macbook Pro external HDD via Duel Adapter (and of course have to be careful to avoid any glitches coming from that).

I've been testing using Raylight for part of that workflow once it hits the MBP. Here is what seems to be the net difference:

1. Instead of using the Log and Transfer in FCP to cull out the crap and label everything, I would now suck it all into an FCP project bin and cull/label it there. That is probably a plus since Raylight eliminates the "ingest" time and glitch potential.

2. I have not yet heard back from Raylight on a question regarding using Raylight's pulldown and frame rate check boxes vs. FCP 6.

3. (I think, but needs confirmation) that once Raylight creates the QT link file, I can send the Contents folder to a non-Raylight computer to view (assuming it could view DVCPROHD) or archive it.

Raylight is going to release additional documentation on Mac workflow tips.

Good luck.
 
Two things you should do:

1: F**K off Vista cause it's a bucket of shite for video production, run XP Pro.

2: Connect a good quality external HDD (Western Digital Raid Edition 7200 Sata) to your lappy and use it for all video capture storage and any other video related scratch disk requirements. Operate all software as usual on current lappy C:/ drive. Theoretically the default HDD is fast enough for what you are doing but it runs into trouble when trying to do high data rate video capture whilst also running the operating system and associated programs.
Adobe software (premiere) is well known to **** itself when trying to run the premiere software application and capture video at the same time to the same HDD. Adobe OnLocation will exhibit the same issues, more so with HD video..
That said, it's also probably good practice not to keep your precious video data on the same disk that runs the lappy, not to mention if the lappy drive burns up then your screwed but you tend not to get virus's and mal/spywear crap eating chunks through your vids when they're kept on a drive not running programs and system files.. Hope this makes sense, should fix your probs I thinkssss..
 
Hello guys,

OnLocation records DVCPRO 50 like 4:2:2 ?
What is the OnLocation MOV and AVI compression ?

Thanks,
Ulisses
 
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