Panasonic USA, HVX answers the EX1 push with a free 16GB P2 card

[Look 1st]

Well since they come in the box now, a shortage of P2 would mean a shortage of HVX's being shipped. I bet Panny made well sure that there is enough.

No
The cards are PUT in the box, and it would actually create the same scenario as before. Since the FREE cards are being put in the box, there would/could be less cards available for purchase if the stock isnt there.

Purely based on the stock of cards at hand when boxes start getting cut open and cards thrown in.

and I wouldnt bet Panny well made sure of anything, this looks more like a knee-jerk reaction to SONY did, not pro-action on Pannys part.

Good on them for providing the cards though!

 

[Concept89]

did'nt realize heads would take it so personally!
my meaning was as concept puts it.
when i checked pricing in the uk bout a year ago,the hvx200 WAS (in £)the same price on release as the ex1, which is why i bought a gray,
the p2 cards are only now becoming more sensibly priced,they were very expensive up until a few months back,
hope i didnt upset you all too much.

Well, I understand what you meant.

But I just dont understand your logic behind it. This is simply a byproduct of Moore's Law. This happens with all technology. Because P2 came out sooner than SxS, it was subject to be more expensive because of the lack of technological resources.

While it was priced quite horrendously back in the day, it was one of the only solid-state forms of video that was available to Sub-10K cameras. It was only a matter of time until Sony released their products to combat Panny's temporary "monopoly".


This happens with all technology. 1st one out is the most expensive. When time passes and more companies are conforming, prices drop. There's no reason to think that the initial prices of P2 were unreasonable because they were the only marketed solid-state memory for prosumer cameras at that time. :/

 

[ecking]

I hope panny canada jumps on this because I sell hvx's at work and this would really help....hell it might even get me to buy an hvx!

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

and I wouldnt bet Panny well made sure of anything, this looks more like a knee-jerk reaction to SONY did, not pro-action on Pannys part.
Good on them for providing the cards though!

There is one 16 GB card (not cards)in the box along with the Barry Green Book. Second this has been my wish for almost a year, ever since we did the last promotion with the P2 card as that actually got more people to try P2 than if they never got the card. To have my year's worth of pushing and shoving to make this happen be summed up as a knee jerk reaction to Sony, well that hurts. And some may think this obviously, but it has been something I have wanted from the very get-go.

Best,

Jan

 

[Morpheus_23]

There is one 16 GB card (not cards)in the box along with the Barry Green Book. Second this has been my wish for almost a year, ever since we did the last promotion with the P2 card as that actually got more people to try P2 than if they never got the card. To have my year's worth of pushing and shoving to make this happen be summed up as a knee jerk reaction to Sony, well that hurts. And some may think this obviously, but it has been something I have wanted from the very get-go.

Best,

Jan

Jan, I just bought my HVX and sent in the paperwork for the 700 special. Is this included or only sales from now?

 

[Look 1st]

...To have my year's worth of pushing and shoving to make this happen be summed up as a knee jerk reaction to Sony, well that hurts. And some may think this obviously, but it has been something I have wanted from the very get-go.

Best,

Jan

My apologies Jan!
Im glad to see your hard work has paid off~ It will certainly amount to more people buying the HVX and having a nice card to shoot with from the get go. Thus keeping P2s place in market secure-

 

[cwpost]

How about a rebate or reward for guys with hvx serial numbers that are under B6TC00500, guys that were brave enough to buy the camera the first week of it's release! Before we all knew what a great camera it is. Not bitchin, would be great though.

 

[David Saraceno]

How about a rebate or reward for guys with hvx serial numbers that are under B6TC00500, guys that were brave enough to buy the camera the first week of it's release! Before we all knew what a great camera it is. Not bitchin, would be great though.

You have a better chance of being hit my a comet.

Not lighting, but a comet.

A bunch of us have fought this battle for nearly two years.

Panasonic isn't interested.

The early adopters and just that. No incentives, no rebates, no card

But I did stay at Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[kss212]

sorry if this question was already answered and I foolishly missed it, but where exactly is this deal being put to use? certain websites? or is it just nationwide for every Hvx?

 

[Barry_S]

Honestly. You can't expect a company to make special offers and rebates retroactive. They're designed to lure people who haven't bought the product. Just from a logistical and accounting standpoint, it would be insane. When you buy a tech product you can count on someone getting a better deal after you--always! The HVX has done a great job of retaining its value, so if you sell your two-year-old camera, and figure out your "rental fee"-- you early adopters made out like bandits.

 

[cwpost]

I just gotta stop being the first one on my block to have it! Maybe I won't go to NAB this year. Did the same thing with the hpx500. You're right though, I could sell it today for almost what I paid for it when it first came out!

 

[Jared Meyer]

It amounts to effectively a $900 price cut, which places the HVX at about 25% cheaper than the EX1. That creates market segmentation between the two products and, if Sony stops offering the rebate 8GB card after Dec. 30th, the price gap becomes more like 30% or 35%. That's a significant difference and shuffles the market up a bit.

A new camera? Well, we always want new, but I doubt they're going to pull one out of their hats overnight.

Looks like Sony is preparing to offer a second 8GB SxS card for free until March for EX-1 customers who complete an online survey. At this point the promotions cancel each other out, I'd think, leaving the cameras' price points about $1500 apart.

That's really enough to create market segmentation, given how much better the EX-1 looks so far? I wonder what Panasonic has cooking given that the bar has been raised significantly in the sub $10K market since the HVX's release- what with the XH-A1 at DVX prices and now the EX-1 looking to possibly overshadow the HVX... Maybe you can set me straight Barry if I'm over-simplifying things here. Is Panasonic in trouble at all over the next year or is the DVX/HVX enough to remain competitive? They can't possibly have anything closer than a year out, can they?

Regardless, I'm excited to see what their response will be- even if I will have already had to jump ship by then.

 

[David Jimerson]

You have a better chance of being hit my a comet.

Not lighting, but a comet.

A bunch of us have fought this battle for nearly two years.

Panasonic isn't interested.

The early adopters and just that. No incentives, no rebates, no card

But I did stay at Holiday Inn Express last night.

Why, as a business, would they make the decision to do that?

And on what rational basis do you have an expectation that they should?

 

[Barry_Green]

Looks like Sony is preparing to offer a second 8GB SxS card for free until March for EX-1 customers who complete an online survey. At this point the promotions cancel each other out, I'd think, leaving the cameras' price points about $1500 apart.

Right, that's what I factored in. That's about 30% more expensive. HVX at $5,000, plus 30% = $1500, = EX1 at $6500.

That's really enough to create market segmentation, given how much better the EX-1 looks so far?

How much better does it look? Depends on who's doing the looking. EX1 has a lot of buzz so far, but every camera goes through that phase. What about when it starts to hit the fan, like every camera goes through -- with the HD100 it was split screen, with the HVX it was "noise", with the V1U it was "oil paint"... with the EX1, it'll be -- what? Vignetting? Oil paint? Rolling shutter? All three? When reports of those start to hit, how much "better" will it look? Every product goes through these phases, the EX1 will be no different.

All I'm saying is, the game ain't over until it's over. Right now the HVX is highly entrenched, about 80% of broadcast sales are P2. The HVX is doing just fine and will continue to do just fine. People who want an established workflow, or who want standard definition in addition to HD, or who want an audio limiter circuit, or who want the 30% cheaper price point, or the immunity to rolling shutter or long-GOP issues, will see value in the HVX system. Those who want the noiseless footage and crisper picture of the Sony will feel that the price premium is worth it. There's room for both.

I wonder what Panasonic has cooking given that the bar has been raised significantly in the sub $10K market since the HVX's release- what with the XH-A1 at DVX prices and now the EX-1 looking to possibly overshadow the HVX... Maybe you can set me straight Barry if I'm over-simplifying things here.

The pendulum swings one way, and then it swings the other. Sony's been getting its patootie handed to it in the marketplace for years. If the pendulum swings back their way, it's the natural course of things and it'll drive Panasonic to up their game too.

Panasonic still sells lots of DVXs. Lots and lots of those. The XHA1 is a great little HDV camcorder but its sales have dried up ever since the HV20 came out (I don't know if the HV20 is what caused it to dry up, but I do know that I've asked dealers on three different continents how well certain products are doing and they've all told me that the XHA1 has dried up). I don't understand why; I think it's hands-down the best HDV camcorder on the market. And yet sales of the DVX are still going quite strong. Maybe slowing down in the USA some, but overseas and especially in countries where they haven't gone high-def yet (and there are many of those) the DVX is still a strong contender.

What we as a community think is happening, and what's actually happening, are not always the same.

Is Panasonic in trouble at all over the next year or is the DVX/HVX enough to remain competitive? They can't possibly have anything closer than a year out, can they?

I don't know if they're in trouble; their low end lineup looks like it's not competitive for what most DVXUser filmmakers want (the HSC1U has no 24p, the HMC70 is hideously ugly and again no 24p, and the DVX is standard-def only and, while fine for SD, everyone else is offering some form of HD at that price point). Their mid- to high-end lineup is fantastically superior to any competitor's product and they've sewn up most of the mid to high end. Even the BBC has standardized on DVCPRO-HD from the HDX900, and is expected to announce that they'll be going fully P2.

So the low end? That's the question mark. What will they hit back with, and when? Could they have something a year away? Not if it's new from the ground up, probably. But if it's been in development for a couple of years, it could certainly be about time to pop. I've been nagging them for two years to build an AVC-HD version of the DVX100, and son of a gun if they didn't show something that looked an awful lot like that at InterBee. So if they delivered a high-def CCD-based camcorder recording to 1920x1080 AVC-HD, at a $4,000 price point, recording to $20 SD cards instead of $900 SxS cards, would that cause a bit of a shakeup for the EX1? I'd dare say a lot of people looking towards the EX1 might think twice at that point.

I don't know when the pendulum will swing, I only know that it will continue to do so.

 

[Justyn]

Looks like Sony is preparing to offer a second 8GB SxS card for free until March for EX-1 customers who complete an online survey. At this point the promotions cancel each other out, I'd think, leaving the cameras' price points about $1500 apart.

That's really enough to create market segmentation, given how much better the EX-1 looks so far? I wonder what Panasonic has cooking given that the bar has been raised significantly in the sub $10K market since the HVX's release- what with the XH-A1 at DVX prices and now the EX-1 looking to possibly overshadow the HVX... Maybe you can set me straight Barry if I'm over-simplifying things here. Is Panasonic in trouble at all over the next year or is the DVX/HVX enough to remain competitive? They can't possibly have anything closer than a year out, can they?

Regardless, I'm excited to see what their response will be- even if I will have already had to jump ship by then.

I'd rather have burning hot coals put into my eyes than buy a Sony Cam... and that's maybe being mild.


Besides, I think that Sony has two years of catching up to do in sales and marketshare. Most people who wanted an HD already bought an HVX.. so how is this appealing to others? I think that all this fluffing and posturing on what's better leads me to say that for two years I've been banking cash and now the Sony crowd comes along claiming short term victory. In two years from now however, you can guarantee Panny will answer with something different.. and thankfully not a Sony. Hated 'em since the VX1000 days...


but it does allow competition which creates great incentives. The extra 16 gig card is a good deal to sway me to a 2nd HVX.. and not to a first EX. Wonder how most people would buy... especially if there's further incentives and a price drop too.

 

[Spec-Comm]

I'd rather have burning hot coals put into my eyes than buy a Sony Cam... and that's maybe being mild.


Besides, I think that Sony has two years of catching up to do in sales and marketshare. Most people who wanted an HD already bought an HVX.. so how is this appealing to others? I think that all this fluffing and posturing on what's better leads me to say that for two years I've been banking cash and now the Sony crowd comes along claiming short term victory. In two years from now however, you can guarantee Panny will answer with something different.. and thankfully not a Sony. Hated 'em since the VX1000 days...


but it does allow competition which creates great incentives. The extra 16 gig card is a good deal to sway me to a 2nd HVX.. and not to a first EX. Wonder how most people would buy... especially if there's further incentives and a price drop too.

That was beautiful Justyn... It brings a tear to my eye... You're the "Braveheart" of the posts.

But seriously, well put.

Best regards,

Andrew Hoffman

 

[David Saraceno]

Honestly. You can't expect a company to make special offers and rebates retroactive. They're designed to lure people who haven't bought the product. Just from a logistical and accounting standpoint, it would be insane. When you buy a tech product you can count on someone getting a better deal after you--always! The HVX has done a great job of retaining its value, so if you sell your two-year-old camera, and figure out your "rental fee"-- you early adopters made out like bandits.

Comcast has started to do this for long standing customers.

It's just good business to me . . . .

I don't expect Panasonic to make special offers and rebates retroactive.

However, a good company becomes a better company when they do offer early adopters a discount or other reward.

But I won't watch out for comets

 

[David Saraceno]

Why, as a business, would they make the decision to do that?

And on what rational basis do you have an expectation that they should?

David, the "rational basis" is good business practices that takes into account the difficulties of the first 6-8 months of the rollout and attendant issues. Make sense to me, and probably to all those other early adopters.

I don't expect anything; but I really urge the company to do so.

Just like the battery tabs. If I lied about what occurred, they'd be fixed today on Panasonic's dime.

I didn't and now I pay for it. That just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[David Saraceno]

So if they delivered a high-def CCD-based camcorder recording to 1920x1080 AVC-HD, at a $4,000 price point, recording to $20 SD cards instead of $900 SxS cards, would that cause a bit of a shakeup for the EX1? I'd dare say a lot of people looking towards the EX1 might think twice at that point.

I don't know when the pendulum will swing, I only know that it will continue to do so.

That would get my attention pretty quickly.

Even if it were 720p AVC-HD, preferably intra, but even without it if it were a CCD rather than CMOS, it would sell.

 

[Morpheus_23]

Comcast has started to do this for long standing customers.

It's just good business to me . . . .

I don't expect Panasonic to make special offers and rebates retroactive.

However, a good company becomes a better company when they do offer early adopters a discount or other reward.

But I won't watch out for comets

Yes, Comcast is doing that. And it is good business. I mean, I bought the HVX anyway but probably wouldn't have delayed my decision had the P2 been the special rather than the battery, books and software.

But even though there are incentives attached, people buy the camera mainly on the merits of the camera they have chosen. Whether it be price, resolution, codec or whatever, people will buy based on their needs. And while the EX1 will be chosen by some because it's new, has a higher resolution or whatever the reason, the HVX will continue to be the choice of many because it still does everything.