What fluid head do you use or recommend?
- Thread starter Deuceofspades
- Start date
puredrifting
Major Contributor
If it were me, I would be highly disappointed to rent an HVX-200, P2 cards and batteries for probably $300.00 to $400.00 per day to receive a Bogen level tripod. I would expect at least a Cartoni or Miller and would hope for a Sachtler or O'Connor.
If you are a "pro" kind of rental house, you gotta have all of the "pro" toys and accessories, if you are like a Band Pro or Abel Cine. If you are more like a prosumer kind of place that only rents prosumer camcorders, then I wouldn't expect much as far as tripod. Do you rent HDCAMs, Varicams, HDXs and the like or just prosumer cameras?
Perhaps it has changed, but when I used to rent a lot of Varicams and DBeta camcorders, standard rental package price included field monitor, sticks, batteries, charger, lens and a carrying case. I guess with prosumer cameras, perhaps it's not that way? I mostly rented from Plus 8 Digital and Wexler.
Dan
If you are a "pro" kind of rental house, you gotta have all of the "pro" toys and accessories, if you are like a Band Pro or Abel Cine. If you are more like a prosumer kind of place that only rents prosumer camcorders, then I wouldn't expect much as far as tripod. Do you rent HDCAMs, Varicams, HDXs and the like or just prosumer cameras?
Perhaps it has changed, but when I used to rent a lot of Varicams and DBeta camcorders, standard rental package price included field monitor, sticks, batteries, charger, lens and a carrying case. I guess with prosumer cameras, perhaps it's not that way? I mostly rented from Plus 8 Digital and Wexler.
Dan
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Hey Adam:
You are going for the RED, huh? I am very envious. Amazing camera. Bet you will forget all about your little HVX once you have your mitts on a RED? ;-) I would.
Am I correct in thinking that a fully loaded RED has got to be pushing 30 to 35lbs at least, right? You need some real iron here, I would seriously consider an O'Connor or a Sachtler Cine 30 or even a 70. Forget trying to buy something that you can use with your HVX as well, I would just buy a nice Cartoni or lower end Sachtler for the HVX. Although your HVX with all of the toys must approach 20lbs, right? Mine is at 16.2lbs but I just added the 24" Red Rock rods which are a few more ounces and I will be buying a Carrion, Nebtek or Panasonic monitor so that with batteries will put me slightly over 20lbs.
You can probably find a great head that will range from 20 to 40lbs capacity and use for both but not for your HVX sans the Letus Extreme, etc.
Dan
taormina
Hates to Rent
Well Dan, I should qualify what I mean by "buying a RED".
I'm always looking forward to my next purchase, whether it's a car, home, boat, or motorcycle. I'm a consumer, and don't keep things very long. I've been studying the RED for months and have determined it will be my next camera. I have not put down a deposit because I hate to be one of those people who trot out their reservation number like it's some sort of willy wonka golden ticket. I have the money to purchase the camera and all the gear for it right now in the bank, so it isn't a question of money.
Twice I have almost clicked the button to "purchase" the camera on red.com. I've almost put down the deposit money......but I have paused, and both times it was because of all the issues the camera has been having. I really need them to figure it out first. The production hold was probably the icing on the cake for me. After that I was like....let them work it all out and I will buy it.
Am i worried I'll miss my spot? No. Am I worried there won't be any cameras to buy when they sort it out? no. As soon as two or three hundred are out there and running fine, I will get in line. It's a great camera, a fantastic company, and alot of bang for the buck - and I will own one. My prediction is that in summer of '08 you'll be able to walk into Red's HQ in Lake Forest and buy a camera, which I will do the second they are out of beta testing.
And of course I'll invest in all the best accessories because I'll keep that camera longer than the HVX.
Still love the HVX. A wonderful camera. I'm shooting my feature in February on it - wouldn't use the RED even if it was ready - still far too unstable for me. Don't know what my rig weighs but I ought to find out. The 135 is a super heavy lens too, I should weigh it all.
As far as forgetting the HVX, not likely. Nor this board, or people like you. This place is the best, and the people rock. Far better than reduser.net!!!!!!
I'm always looking forward to my next purchase, whether it's a car, home, boat, or motorcycle. I'm a consumer, and don't keep things very long. I've been studying the RED for months and have determined it will be my next camera. I have not put down a deposit because I hate to be one of those people who trot out their reservation number like it's some sort of willy wonka golden ticket. I have the money to purchase the camera and all the gear for it right now in the bank, so it isn't a question of money.
Twice I have almost clicked the button to "purchase" the camera on red.com. I've almost put down the deposit money......but I have paused, and both times it was because of all the issues the camera has been having. I really need them to figure it out first. The production hold was probably the icing on the cake for me. After that I was like....let them work it all out and I will buy it.
Am i worried I'll miss my spot? No. Am I worried there won't be any cameras to buy when they sort it out? no. As soon as two or three hundred are out there and running fine, I will get in line. It's a great camera, a fantastic company, and alot of bang for the buck - and I will own one. My prediction is that in summer of '08 you'll be able to walk into Red's HQ in Lake Forest and buy a camera, which I will do the second they are out of beta testing.
And of course I'll invest in all the best accessories because I'll keep that camera longer than the HVX.
Still love the HVX. A wonderful camera. I'm shooting my feature in February on it - wouldn't use the RED even if it was ready - still far too unstable for me. Don't know what my rig weighs but I ought to find out. The 135 is a super heavy lens too, I should weigh it all.
As far as forgetting the HVX, not likely. Nor this board, or people like you. This place is the best, and the people rock. Far better than reduser.net!!!!!!
ScottNelson
Well-known member
Back to the original fluid head question... No doubt, I'd go with a Sachtler. I recently traded in my old Video20 III for a new Sachtler Video 18 SB that balances cameras from 4-46 lbs. That's a great plus because it is perfect for everything from my HVX to my older BVW-D600. Sure it's more $$$ but it's worth having a fluid head that handles such a wide range of cameras. I also have both the lighter weight and heavy-duty carbon sticks.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Hi snp:
How much does a Video 18 SB go for these days? That's a seriously nice head.
Dan
How much does a Video 18 SB go for these days? That's a seriously nice head.
Dan
Cees Mutsaers
Veteran
In The Netherlands a video 15 SB costs 2958 euro ex. BTW so the 18 SB will be more expensive. However the 15 SB is more than sufficient even for the HPX500.
Steve Shovlar
DVXuser Sponsor
Can't go wrong with Satchler, but unfortunately a new one is above your budget.
Take a look on Ebay though because they do come up second hand regularly for much closer to £1000, and they last forever if looked after and serviced.
I own a Satchler 20 III and its a beauty.
Take a look on Ebay though because they do come up second hand regularly for much closer to £1000, and they last forever if looked after and serviced.
I own a Satchler 20 III and its a beauty.
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
Hi Faith, nice to see that you come over from the HAMB sometimes. :happy:
Remember, I`m the guy from Germany who is doing that "German Tank on the Salt" Film. I asked you about dos and dont s on the lake regarding camera work.
I got a nice heavy Universal head (wich is actualy from Miller - the guy who invented fluid heads) of Ebay for 100 Euros.
I buy lots of used pro equipment there - most of the time half the price of new China Junk or semi pro stuff.
It s woth a look.
Frank
Remember, I`m the guy from Germany who is doing that "German Tank on the Salt" Film. I asked you about dos and dont s on the lake regarding camera work.
I got a nice heavy Universal head (wich is actualy from Miller - the guy who invented fluid heads) of Ebay for 100 Euros.
I buy lots of used pro equipment there - most of the time half the price of new China Junk or semi pro stuff.
It s woth a look.
Frank
jonnyh1968
Well-known member
I'm a Cartoni Focus owner also. Love it also. I tracked 100 mph motorcycles around a 1/2 mile oval track at 14x easily. And I mean EASY! Not too much I get excited about but this system rocked my world.
Deuceofspades
Veteran
Talking about dry lake camera work, you'd dig the new teaser I just finished editing. It's 2 min entrirely filmed at start line. My first footage shot with HVX200 and my first try at editing high def with vegas and Raylight. I am THAT close from posting it on the net
!! I had a blast filming it and editing it too. I think it captures very well the essence of a time trial meet. Now about buying used heads... I am going to have to pass on that (except your head maybe), because I find that I need to try a head and see if I like it. Also, there is no way of knowing how it was used, misused, and if it was take care of or abused. My moto when it comes to filming gear is BUY NEW - thsi way you know what you are getting - the only thing I bought used were my 35mm lenses for my adapter.
Deuceofspades
Veteran
yeah I really like the cartoni head... but I'd have to change my sticks too....
100 mph??????????? that's it? LOL
Just teasing.... The cars I have had to follow were going in the 200 - 270 mph range. OUCH. Granted they are going in a straight line so that heps a bit
. Fun stuff.
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
About my question before, forgot to come back here and say thank you for the responses...
I went with a Bogen tripod for now, which is a professional grade tripod not a prosumer tripod -- I had a prosumer tripod at one point, it cost me $75. That's a crappy tripod. A $600 tripod is professional grade, just as the HVX200 is professional grade (XL-2 is prosumer, HVX200 is professional because it's used that way every day of the year) but it's not like you're going to use a Bogen or Manfrotto tripod for Spider-Man 3. We're not targeting big productions looking for really high end equipment right now. Anyway, if you are going for that, I hope you have $5 million and a lot of patience. Nobody will rent from you. You have to be Birns & Sawyer or Mole Richardson or another well established company to get the big guys because those guys already have their connections. We're going for small to mid-sized productions, and by mid-sized I mean a music video with a $25,000 budget let's say, that need pro level equipment but don't everything under the sun.
It makes no sense to buy a $5,000 camera and have a tripod that costs as much as your camera, I'm sorry it just really doesn't. When I get my RED for the company we'll get a tripod that's highly professional, whether that's a $7,000 tripod or a $12,000 tripod, whatever it takes, whatever is the best we can get for that purpose. But I don't think you need some hardcore 35mm film tripod for a camera that weighs 20 pounds fully loaded, maybe 22 or 23, max, and usually not even that much.
I've been on a lot of shoots and I'm still trying to figure out what's the big deal about having a $10,000+ tripod. I mean we honestly don't use our tripod that much, except that the tripod rests on the dolly. Tripod shots are pretty much boring. I'd rather have the camera handheld, steadicam, jib, dolly, etc. There are clear, great applications for a tripod and a killer fluid head, but the prices are just so out of line...
I went with a Bogen tripod for now, which is a professional grade tripod not a prosumer tripod -- I had a prosumer tripod at one point, it cost me $75. That's a crappy tripod. A $600 tripod is professional grade, just as the HVX200 is professional grade (XL-2 is prosumer, HVX200 is professional because it's used that way every day of the year) but it's not like you're going to use a Bogen or Manfrotto tripod for Spider-Man 3. We're not targeting big productions looking for really high end equipment right now. Anyway, if you are going for that, I hope you have $5 million and a lot of patience. Nobody will rent from you. You have to be Birns & Sawyer or Mole Richardson or another well established company to get the big guys because those guys already have their connections. We're going for small to mid-sized productions, and by mid-sized I mean a music video with a $25,000 budget let's say, that need pro level equipment but don't everything under the sun.
It makes no sense to buy a $5,000 camera and have a tripod that costs as much as your camera, I'm sorry it just really doesn't. When I get my RED for the company we'll get a tripod that's highly professional, whether that's a $7,000 tripod or a $12,000 tripod, whatever it takes, whatever is the best we can get for that purpose. But I don't think you need some hardcore 35mm film tripod for a camera that weighs 20 pounds fully loaded, maybe 22 or 23, max, and usually not even that much.
I've been on a lot of shoots and I'm still trying to figure out what's the big deal about having a $10,000+ tripod. I mean we honestly don't use our tripod that much, except that the tripod rests on the dolly. Tripod shots are pretty much boring. I'd rather have the camera handheld, steadicam, jib, dolly, etc. There are clear, great applications for a tripod and a killer fluid head, but the prices are just so out of line...
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Deuceofspades
Veteran
After careful testing of Vinten and Cartoni I have decided to go up to Byrn and Sawyer and test the Sachtler...
I did like the cartoni, but did not like the lack of number on tension dials.
I did like the Vinten when it did not have a spring in it. but as soon as the salesrep put the mildest spring in it I no longer could move the tension dial past 4 (as opposed to up to 9)... I did not like that. I also hate the color... Grey...
So that leaves the Sachtler, black, with number on dial and another $500 up in price. But if it is as good as you guys say, then I bet I won't regret the $500.
I'll let you know what my feedback is.
PS: Best way to test a head is doing a few smooth diagonal pans... Those are tough.
I did like the cartoni, but did not like the lack of number on tension dials.
I did like the Vinten when it did not have a spring in it. but as soon as the salesrep put the mildest spring in it I no longer could move the tension dial past 4 (as opposed to up to 9)... I did not like that. I also hate the color... Grey...
So that leaves the Sachtler, black, with number on dial and another $500 up in price. But if it is as good as you guys say, then I bet I won't regret the $500.
I'll let you know what my feedback is.
PS: Best way to test a head is doing a few smooth diagonal pans... Those are tough.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Hi Faith:
Which Sachtler are you going to try out? Let us know what your thoughts are. I agree, diagonal pans are the test that separates the pretenders from the real deal.
Dan
Which Sachtler are you going to try out? Let us know what your thoughts are. I agree, diagonal pans are the test that separates the pretenders from the real deal.
Dan
Deuceofspades
Veteran
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Hi Faith:
That is the model of head that I use, it's an awesome piece of gear.
Dan
That is the model of head that I use, it's an awesome piece of gear.
Dan